Why are most bishops and priests modernists
#1
I am often disturbed by how rampant modernism has become among the Ordined Class. It seems that Vatican II has competely destroyed any sense of tradition and faithfulness in the Church.

Is this because of bad formation at seminary or something more problematic with the way the Faith is taught today in families and parishes?
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#2
I think it's a combination of both. Having taught CCD in a typical, liberal NO Parish, I was horrified at the 'teaching materials'. I was teaching grade 7 and I had parents bitching at me, 'Why doesn't my child know the Rosary?' I wanted to say, 'Because you didn't teach them at home!'

My wife, when she was still a practising Catholic taught in a 'Catholic' school and the materials she was told to use for religion were no better.

Then, after not learning the Faith at home or in CCD or the Parish school, a young man goes off to university where even what little Faith he may have managed to garner earlier is attacked on every side. Then he goes off to seminary to be taught by men who have had the same experience.

What hope is there except at the family/Parish level of changing what is essentially a vicious circle?
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#3
(02-12-2018, 12:34 AM)Trad Catholic27 Wrote: I am often disturbed by how rampant modernism has become among the Ordined Class. It seems that Vatican II has competely destroyed any sense of tradition and faithfulness in the Church.

Is this because of bad formation at seminary or something more problematic with the way the Faith is taught today in families and parishes?

Make no mistake that Vatican II was a revolution, but a revolution that was long in the making and easy to implement with little resistance. We all can dream of the "good old days" where every Catholic was a pious church-goer and the priest said the TLM in the most reverent of manners, but it is not so. When I read of letters from the 1920s complaining about how priests would simply mumble through the Mass in order to get it over with, people having no idea what is being preached, priests in some instances having the laity give the sermon...I realize that the rot was well set in before the day of reckoning.

It is a combination of bad upbringing, bad liturgy, bad theology, and bad formation.

Many Catholic families are simply lukewarm when it comes to passing the Faith onto the children. Public education has done such as tremendous job a destroying the prime parental responsibilities of education, that parents expect religion to be taught as well. How is a child to grow up to be a good priest, when the only experience of the Faith he gets is the 1-hour of Mass once a week, that's providing the family goes every week.

Much of the liturgy is simply appalling and thus can also be blamed. How many NO homilies have we heard over and over again about how "Jesus wants us to understand us deeper." and "We should really strive to live our lives as disciples of Christ." but there being actually no directions given nor instructions on how to actually do that, other than vague platitudes? How many liturgies make the priest feel like the poor schlub who just sits on the sidelines while the laity take over and only is trotted out when we need him to do the prayers and consecration? How can one expect a child to grow up as a holy priest when week-end week-out he is subject to a baneful banal liturgy?

Theology, what can be said other than Lex orandi Lex Credendi. Too often has the bad liturgy slipped into bad theology, but you could also reverse the order and it still would be true --- to an extent. Before the NO, there was bad theology everywhere with Teilhard de Chardin and the likes of Hans Kung, Karl Rahner, Hans Urns von Balthasar, and Ratzinger, and that bad theology affected the liturgy.

Finally formation, when the foxes run the hen house you will have bad seminaries forming bad priests because the seminarians who come in are like sheep led to a slaughter. Lack of Catholic upbringing, poor liturgy meets bad theology at the seminaries which leads to bad priests and future bishops.
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#4
(02-12-2018, 12:34 AM)Trad Catholic27 Wrote: I am often disturbed by how rampant modernism has become among the Ordined Class. It seems that Vatican II has competely destroyed any sense of tradition and faithfulness in the Church.

Is this because of bad formation at seminary or something more problematic with the way the Faith is taught today in families and parishes?
Peace.....we have had 2 lost generations with poor catechism, poor seminary education, and they dont know any different!  Trying to re-educate now is very difficult and they see the Truth as old-fashioned, not researching exactly what happened in history and how damaging Vatican 11 was/is.  I believe too there were non-Catholics on school boards as well as non-Catholic teachers because they were simply reading educational material and teaching from that - not actually "handing on the faith" as the Priests and Sisters in the former days of Vatican 11 did.  This got in good - and we are going through hell trying to get it out or stay out of it!  God bless, angeltime :incense:
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#5
(02-12-2018, 01:45 AM)austenbosten Wrote:
(02-12-2018, 12:34 AM)Trad Catholic27 Wrote: I am often disturbed by how rampant modernism has become among the Ordined Class. It seems that Vatican II has competely destroyed any sense of tradition and faithfulness in the Church.

Is this because of bad formation at seminary or something more problematic with the way the Faith is taught today in families and parishes?

Make no mistake that Vatican II was a revolution, but a revolution that was long in the making and easy to implement with little resistance.  We all can dream of the "good old days" where every Catholic was a pious church-goer and the priest said the TLM in the most reverent of manners, but it is not so.  When I read of letters from the 1920s complaining about how priests would simply mumble through the Mass in order to get it over with, people having no idea what is being preached, priests in some instances having the laity give the sermon...I realize that the rot was well set in before the day of reckoning.

It is a combination of bad upbringing, bad liturgy, bad theology, and bad formation.

Many Catholic families are simply lukewarm when it comes to passing the Faith onto the children.  Public education has done such as tremendous job a destroying the prime parental responsibilities of education, that parents expect religion to be taught as well.  How is a child to grow up to be a good priest, when the only experience of the Faith he gets is the 1-hour of Mass once a week, that's providing the family goes every week.

Much of the liturgy is simply appalling and thus can also be blamed.  How many NO homilies have we heard over and over again about how "Jesus wants us to understand us deeper." and "We should really strive to live our lives as disciples of Christ." but there being actually no directions given nor instructions on how to actually do that, other than vague platitudes?  How many liturgies make the priest feel like the poor schlub who just sits on the sidelines while the laity take over and only is trotted out when we need him to do the prayers and consecration?  How can one expect a child to grow up as a holy priest when week-end week-out he is subject to a baneful banal liturgy?

Theology, what can be said other than Lex orandi Lex Credendi.  Too often has the bad liturgy slipped into bad theology, but you could also reverse the order and it still would be true --- to an extent.  Before the NO, there was bad theology everywhere with Teilhard de Chardin and the likes of Hans Kung, Karl Rahner, Hans Urns von Balthasar, and Ratzinger, and that bad theology affected the liturgy.

Finally formation, when the foxes run the hen house you will have bad seminaries forming bad priests because the seminarians who come in are like sheep led to a slaughter.  Lack of Catholic upbringing, poor liturgy meets bad theology at the seminaries which leads to bad priests and future bishops.

A little side thought....When people talk about the pre-V II climate in such a way it does sort of help to explain how it all could've happened--at least for me. As for why it had to happen, beyond some kind of chastisement from God, all I can think of is that since the Church has had the livin' daylights pruned out of her, we can no longer take anything for granted they way people maybe could've in the past.
Oh my Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything.--Fr Dolindo Ruotolo

Persevere..Eucharist, Holy Rosary, Brown Scapular, Confession. You will win.
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#6
(02-12-2018, 03:39 PM)Jacafamala Wrote:
(02-12-2018, 01:45 AM)austenbosten Wrote:
(02-12-2018, 12:34 AM)Trad Catholic27 Wrote: I am often disturbed by how rampant modernism has become among the Ordined Class. It seems that Vatican II has competely destroyed any sense of tradition and faithfulness in the Church.

Is this because of bad formation at seminary or something more problematic with the way the Faith is taught today in families and parishes?

Make no mistake that Vatican II was a revolution, but a revolution that was long in the making and easy to implement with little resistance.  We all can dream of the "good old days" where every Catholic was a pious church-goer and the priest said the TLM in the most reverent of manners, but it is not so.  When I read of letters from the 1920s complaining about how priests would simply mumble through the Mass in order to get it over with, people having no idea what is being preached, priests in some instances having the laity give the sermon...I realize that the rot was well set in before the day of reckoning.

It is a combination of bad upbringing, bad liturgy, bad theology, and bad formation.

Many Catholic families are simply lukewarm when it comes to passing the Faith onto the children.  Public education has done such as tremendous job a destroying the prime parental responsibilities of education, that parents expect religion to be taught as well.  How is a child to grow up to be a good priest, when the only experience of the Faith he gets is the 1-hour of Mass once a week, that's providing the family goes every week.

Much of the liturgy is simply appalling and thus can also be blamed.  How many NO homilies have we heard over and over again about how "Jesus wants us to understand us deeper." and "We should really strive to live our lives as disciples of Christ." but there being actually no directions given nor instructions on how to actually do that, other than vague platitudes?  How many liturgies make the priest feel like the poor schlub who just sits on the sidelines while the laity take over and only is trotted out when we need him to do the prayers and consecration?  How can one expect a child to grow up as a holy priest when week-end week-out he is subject to a baneful banal liturgy?

Theology, what can be said other than Lex orandi Lex Credendi.  Too often has the bad liturgy slipped into bad theology, but you could also reverse the order and it still would be true --- to an extent.  Before the NO, there was bad theology everywhere with Teilhard de Chardin and the likes of Hans Kung, Karl Rahner, Hans Urns von Balthasar, and Ratzinger, and that bad theology affected the liturgy.

Finally formation, when the foxes run the hen house you will have bad seminaries forming bad priests because the seminarians who come in are like sheep led to a slaughter.  Lack of Catholic upbringing, poor liturgy meets bad theology at the seminaries which leads to bad priests and future bishops.

A little side thought....When people talk about the pre-V II climate in such a way it does sort of help to explain how it all could've happened--at least for me. As for why it had to happen, beyond some kind of chastisement from God, all I can think of is that since the Church has had the livin' daylights pruned out of her, we can no longer take anything for granted they way people maybe could've in the past.
Peace.....I think it is a call from God to return to our roots and faith - the Truth - the Tradition - sometimes we have to sink low, in order to get up and also wake up and perhaps this time cherish our faith.  After the great Exodus, the people went right back to their bad living in no time - after all God had done to help them.....We (including hierarchy) have taken God for granted and I find it astounding how many people I know who are searching, reading, inquiring and attending Traditional Mass as a result!  We hear so much of the bad - and I am almost sick to death of it myself, but there is a little good here and there - little lights burning for the Lord here and there - we can't give up!  God bless, angeltime
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#7
In addition to the infiltration of freemasons and communists, there are the sodomites for example you can hear what Fr. John O'Connor had to say about their infiltration in the Dominican Order and other places.

Ave Maria!
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#8
Lex Orandi Lex Credendi was a farce even before Vatican II; just think of Pius X changing the psalter arrangement in the breviary,Pius XII undermining the vulgate by opening up modern bible translations, mangling the Triduum etc. 

We can't forget that even as far back as Pius IX the papacy and the Vatican were already fighting a losing battle with modernist elements, especially when we think of those old anti modernist encyclicals. They'd never have been written and so brutal and harsh if the popes weren't deadly serious about trying to stave off the coming rot. 


The rot goes DEEP. Seriously, if you can find a copy get Geoffrey Hull's book "The Banished Heart" or read the series the author of the Rad Trad blog put up on it some years back.  The western church has been unraveling it's patrimony for centuries, Vatican II was the full blown disease coming to fruition.  

That being said what can be done other than to live that tradition even when it is for all intents and purposes pretty much dead and buried in the Church, with no serious interest amongst anyone with any real power to restore it.
Walk before God in simplicity, and not in subtleties of the mind. Simplicity brings faith; but subtle and intricate speculations bring conceit; and conceit brings withdrawal from God. -Saint Isaac of Syria, Directions on Spiritual Training


"It is impossible in human terms to exaggerate the importance of being in a church or chapel before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. I very seldom repeat what I say. Let me repeat this sentence. It is impossible in human language to exaggerate the importance of being in a chapel or church before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. That sentence is the talisman of the highest sanctity. "Father John Hardon
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#9
(02-12-2018, 05:08 PM)Magdalene Wrote: In addition to the infiltration of freemasons and communists, there are the sodomites for example you can hear what Fr. John O'Connor had to say about their infiltration in the Dominican Order and other places.


That was an informative talk, but there is more to sodomy than homosexual activity.  Sodomy can also be defined as oral or anal copulation with a member of the opposite sex, or copulation with an animal.  It can also be more loosely defined as any form of deviant sexual activity.
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