Direct communication with God
#11
(02-17-2018, 01:54 PM)upandaway Wrote:
(02-16-2018, 08:52 PM)thank you for your response,when you said "does\t usually", could you elaborate on the unusual? When did it happen?That is so important to so many who are looking to know.  MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(02-16-2018, 05:25 AM)upandaway Wrote: Speaking directly to us would eliminate the earthly interpretations that seem to always 
include a “but”.

Actually, it wouldn't, because we have to understand things in a human mode. Even when God does "speak" to us, he does so in a human way : either it is by causing some physical sight or sound, or it is by infusing in our intellect and imagination some image. That is how human beings learn and communicate.

But that's no different than God "speaking" through various inspirations, inclinations, and opportunities around us. Either way he is using secondary causes (created things) as a means to communicate something to us.

In a sense then, if God came to us and cause sounds to be produced for us to understand, it would take the same amount of "interpretation" as God presenting us with an opportunity to help a poor man and seeing that as given us by God.

Were God to do this some other way (i.e. "directly"), he would be working outside the very nature that He created, which is to say he would be multiplying miracles just to speak to us.

(02-16-2018, 05:25 AM)upandaway Wrote: The practical brains we have were created by God, when we ask Him anything in prayer 
He listens to us.

Which is direct communication, no?

(02-16-2018, 05:25 AM)upandaway Wrote: Did He say before He left earth that he would not ever have any direct communication with us?

No, but no one has said such is impossible. We have said it just doesn't usually happen, and to expect God to fit Himself to our desires is to "tempt" God. To ask Him is one thing, to expect it is another.

(02-16-2018, 05:25 AM)upandaway Wrote: God is for goodness. God please speak to us directly is a beautiful prayer to want to be closer
to the beautiful God.

And yet one would be even closer by a well-made Holy Communion, for then one has Christ Himself (who is God) not only spiritual present, but also physically and sacramentally present. That is greater than any locution.

Sometimes God decides to give interior locutions to some people but most of the time He chooses to speak in other ways as in His wisdom He knows what is more conducive to a particular persons salvation.

For whatever reason, this direct speech is simply not helpful to most persons salvation and so He chooses not to exercise it. Not everyone can be a Joan of Ark or a Moses.
Surréxit Dóminus vere, Alleluia!
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#12
“for whatever reason, this direct speech is simply not helpful........”

This is a very serious comment, please back it up.
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#13
(02-18-2018, 05:30 AM)upandaway Wrote: “for whatever reason, this direct speech is simply not helpful........”

This is a very serious comment, please back it up.

Major : God does whatever is strictly necessary and good for the salvation of all men (even though some choose to reject this, and thus are condemned to hell)
Minor : but, God does not directly speak to most people, and even most apparitions are of messengers of God (angels, Our Lady, the Saints),

Therefore, such direct speech is not necessary or good for the salvation of most men.

The very fact that it does not happen often and as you wish it to, is proof that it is not really helpful for men, but only seems to be based on our limited understanding of how God and his grace work.
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#14
thank you very for finally getting to the point that you have limited understanding of how God
and grace work. Thank you very much, I see you really tried to make sense. Logic and science
are just not your thing.
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#15
Um, you do realize that MM has studied scholasticism and is probably the most logical person on this forum.

Whatever, I think I smell a troll.
Surréxit Dóminus vere, Alleluia!
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#16
(02-19-2018, 04:58 AM)upandaway Wrote: thank you very for finally getting to the point that you have limited understanding of how God
and grace work. Thank you very much, I see you really tried to make sense. Logic and science
are just not your thing.

Understanding on how "God and Grace" work is always going to be limited.

These things are mysteries. We can approach mysteries and study the edges of them, but the central aspect of them in hidden within a cloud, and above the capability of any human intellect (or even angelic intellect) to understand.

God is infinitely above us, such that even in heaven with the Beatific Vision while we see the obviousness of God being Trinity, we never completely understand it. If asked, "Is God Trinity?" you could reply, "obviously, see!" But if asked why, you could not, even in heaven with all of the infused knowledge God could possibly provide you, you would not be able to explain or even understand it.

Grace is the same, especially with regard to our free will. Grace is a gift giving a participation in a way in the life of the Trinity. How it works and does not violate our free will is the subject of an intense theological debate that after centuries has still not been resolved and probably will never be.

Perhaps you could inform us about these things seeing as you clearly know more than someone who studied theology and philosophy for a half-decade.

Give it a shot, we'll correct any heresies or errors you have and maybe we can all come to a better understanding here.
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#17
(02-19-2018, 10:00 AM)Dominicus Wrote: Whatever, I think I smell a troll.
I'm beginning to agree. MM lays out a perfect, truthful, and valid syllogism. Instead of attempting to refute it, the troll just says 'Logic and science are just not your thing.' Not exactly the behaviour of someone who is actually seeking answers.
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#18
(02-19-2018, 04:43 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(02-19-2018, 10:00 AM)Dominicus Wrote: Whatever, I think I smell a troll.
I'm beginning to agree. MM lays out a perfect, truthful, and valid syllogism. Instead of attempting to refute it, the troll just says 'Logic and science are just not your thing.' Not exactly the behaviour of someone who is actually seeking answers.

Exactly.
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#19
(02-19-2018, 05:12 PM)Dominicus Wrote:
(02-19-2018, 04:43 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(02-19-2018, 10:00 AM)Dominicus Wrote: Whatever, I think I smell a troll.
I'm beginning to agree. MM lays out a perfect, truthful, and valid syllogism. Instead of attempting to refute it, the troll just says 'Logic and science are just not your thing.' Not exactly the behaviour of someone who is actually seeking answers.

Exactly.

Benefit of the doubt ... sometimes you find a troll who gets intrigued on a point, and stops trolling, even if it's rare ... and I tend to like to let people hang themselves ... far easier, that.
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