What Protestant religion is most like Catholic?
#11
(03-09-2018, 12:40 PM)Dominicus Wrote: Correct. But it is not impossible for a Muslim or Jew to obtain them. If God were to somehow interiorly enlighten one at the moment of death then they would go to heaven.

Not saying that it happens often but it "can" happen.

That's not what the CCC says though.  It says: "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330

Obviously this is worded with some ambiguity.  What does it mean to be included in the plan of salvation?  What does it mean to adore God on the last day?  Could one be included in the plan and adore God on the last day and still go to Hell.

But I'll tell you what it does say explicitly: It states that whatever happens happens by virtue of them being Muslim, and not by the "interior enlightenment" you described.

Just as a reminder, I'm playing devil's advocate here (it feels wrong to say that on this site).
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#12
(03-07-2018, 05:20 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: Anglo-Catholic Episcopalians without a doubt. When I was an Anglo-Catholic, I belonged to a parish that was so 'Catholic looking' that Catholics would come in and not realise that they were in a protestant church until the 'mass' started, IN ENGLISH! It was called St Mary's, had an absolutely beautiful high altar imported from Italy, a side chapel dedicated to the Blessed Mother, regularly scheduled confession times, Adoration and Benediction. Too bad their 'priest' was just a layman playing dress-up.

And, there are still lots of Presbyterians and Reformed who adhere to strict Calvinism.

well, i dont think there are a lot of them... as time has passed since the Deformation, people have learned.. had plenty of time to read the Old Bible that the evil Catholics deprived them of...
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#13
(03-07-2018, 05:34 PM)Imperator Caesar Trump Wrote: Probably Anglicans prior to some time in the 50s-60s.  Now, Lutherans if we're going by what the conciliar church seems to preach/imply.  In reality, Orthodox.

didn't the Anglicans approve of gay ministers?!

Episcopalians? both?
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#14
(03-08-2018, 07:08 PM)salus Wrote: Satan uses fake communities of christians to lead them away from the true one the Catholic Church, Jesus established, Outside of which there is NO SALVATION, check your church teaching to see that

I totally agree. One time yrs ago I w as mad at my priest and well... there is mor to it than just that but in any case, I went to a non-Catholic church, can't recall if Baptist or non-denom but anyway, I felt lonely. I missed the Real Presence... I mean, it blew me away how palpable that experience was (or wasn't...?)
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#15
(03-09-2018, 01:08 PM)Imperator Caesar Trump Wrote: Obviously this is worded with some ambiguity.  What does it mean to be included in the plan of salvation?  What does it mean to adore God on the last day?  Could one be included in the plan and adore God on the last day and still go to Hell.

God desires every human being to be saved, so we're all part of His plan of salvation. The fact that some will reject Him and be damned doesn't mean they aren't part of the plan.

And it doesn't say they adore God on the last day. It says they worship the same God as Christians, and that the Christian God will be mankind's judge on the last day. Two separate things.

(03-09-2018, 01:08 PM)Imperator Caesar Trump Wrote: But I'll tell you what it does say explicitly: It states that whatever happens happens by virtue of them being Muslim, and not by the "interior enlightenment" you described.

But what happens? It explicitly only says by being Muslim, they're included in the plan of salvation. But they're included in that because they're human, so it really doesn't say being Muslim gets you anything. Yes, it's ambiguous, intentionally so, but there's an orthodox way to interpret it, and the way they knew most people would take it isn't it.
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#16
Only the Lutherans also believe in the Real Presence. Anglicans, etc, believe it is a symbol, or a remembrance of a past event. Some Lutherans from conservative Synods, such as Missouri, are doing Liturgies from Martin Luther's own time. These still face the people with the Consecration, however, they are much closer to the Latin Mass than the Novus Ordo liturgy. They include Chant. Also, the hymns are old fashioned Christian, not Baptist, or Gaia inspired. There is only a split hairs difference in Lutheran "Real Presence" and Catholic, and that is that Jesus Christ is "in, around, under and through" the species, which is classic Trent definition. Luther liked to give definitions instead of words, because so many in his time were uneducated in the faith. Lutheran's believe that the transformation takes place when the recipient receives the host (and wine), not at the words of consecration. There really is some discussion among Lutherans about just what happens--transubstantiation is not necessarily ruled out. They usually want to be distinguished from the TradCat view. However, they really do not like a solid definition of it. The Lutheran rite was never condemned by the Catholic Church like the Anglican was. It just has never ruled on it. Now even conservative Lutherans are teaching their flocks that one needs works as well as faith, for Luther said works without faith is dead. He just wanted to get it through stubborn German's workaholic brains (no offense to Germans intended--this is Luther speaking during his time) that Faith was a major factor for salvation. Of course, there were many other problems with Martin Luther. I am simply addressing the similarities with the Catholic. Evangelical Lutherans are just as loony as Novus Ordo, and have essentially the same liturgy and the same tendencies towards Eastern meditation, the same liberalism. However, they too claim the Real Presence. Hope this helps.
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#17
(03-15-2018, 03:56 PM)greatdame Wrote: Only the Lutherans also believe in the Real Presence. Anglicans, ..., believe it is a symbol, or a remembrance of a past event.  
I grew up Anglican. My foster-father was an Anglican priest, my best friend was another, and I considered the priesthood myself. I never met an Anglican who didn't believe in the Real Presence. They range from 'Yes, Christ is really and truly present in the sacrament, but we don't know how', through the Lutheran heresy of consubstantiation, to full, heartfelt belief in the Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation, but they all believe in it.

Why else would they have sanctuary lamps, and in many Anglican churches, a tabernacle on the altar, adoration and benediction?
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

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#18
(03-15-2018, 03:56 PM)greatdame Wrote: Only the Lutherans also believe in the Real Presence. Anglicans, etc, believe it is a symbol, or a remembrance of a past event.  Some Lutherans from conservative Synods, such as Missouri, are doing Liturgies from Martin Luther's own time.  These still face the people with the Consecration, however, they are much closer to the Latin Mass than the Novus Ordo liturgy.  They include Chant.  Also, the hymns are old fashioned Christian, not Baptist, or Gaia inspired.  There is only a split hairs difference in Lutheran "Real Presence" and Catholic, and that is that Jesus Christ is "in, around, under and through" the species, which is classic Trent definition.  Luther liked to give definitions instead of words, because so many in his time were uneducated in the faith.  Lutheran's believe that the transformation takes place when the recipient receives the host (and wine), not at the words of consecration.  There really is some discussion among Lutherans about just what happens--transubstantiation is not necessarily ruled out.  They usually want to be distinguished from the TradCat view.  However, they really do not like a solid definition of it.  The Lutheran rite was never condemned by the Catholic Church like the Anglican was.  It just has never ruled on it.  Now even conservative Lutherans are teaching their flocks that one needs works as well as faith, for Luther said works without faith is dead. He just wanted to get it through stubborn German's workaholic brains (no offense to Germans intended--this is Luther speaking during his time) that Faith was a major factor for salvation.  Of course, there were many other problems with Martin Luther.  I am simply addressing the similarities with the Catholic.  Evangelical Lutherans are just as loony as Novus Ordo, and have essentially the same liturgy and the same tendencies towards Eastern meditation, the same liberalism. However, they too claim the Real Presence. Hope this helps.

Except that Christ isn't present "in, around, under, and through" the Eucharist. Christ IS the Eucharist. And what Lutherans have is just plain bread.

Thus Lutheranism is not just heresy but idolatry also.
Surréxit Dóminus vere, Alleluia!
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#19
What Protestant religion is most Catholic-like?

I'm surprised no one has responded with the Novus Ordo yet.

;)
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#20
(03-15-2018, 06:52 PM)Bonaventure Wrote: What Protestant religion is most Catholic-like?

I'm surprised no one has responded with the Novus Ordo yet.

;)
Nah! Most of the Anglo-Catholic Anglicans and many Lutherans are much more Catholic-like than most of the Novus Ordo. :D
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
“Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'
FishEaters Group on MeWe
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