So worried, so angry
#11
(03-09-2018, 10:04 AM)BC Wrote:
(03-09-2018, 05:43 AM)xandratax Wrote: Anyway, welcome to marriage. It's not some kitschy, amazing experience. It's close to Hell on earth if ever there was one. The idealized version is a Protestant lie. Jesus made it Sacrament in the same way a priest blesses someone going into war. I'm just being honest here, don't mind me...

Man.

As someone hoping to get married in the next couple of years, this is not encouraging to hear.
Peace.....keep in mind that your marriage is the beginning of a journey - not the end - this is the person you have chosen and God has sent, to make this journey with.  It may or may not be a bed of roses, however keeping God in the center, attending Mass, receiving the Sacraments, going to Confession and having good friends and regular family visits/communication is a help.  Your fiance does deserve an opportunity to further his education so he can provide a better life for himself and his family.  Things still may happen, however this is when you remain focused and prayerful.  God bless!  angeltime :heart:
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#12
(03-09-2018, 05:43 AM)xandratax Wrote: Just going to add something that no one seemed to mention. If you're living in poverty and struggling, your marriage probably isn't going to be so sexy as to produce a brood of kids. How else can I say this? Unless screaming matches, arguing over who does what chores, starving and struggling to make ends meet turns you on, then you probably won't be having that much sex and therefore won't have so many kids right away. And if you do, forgive me if I find that a bit sick? I'm pretty sure sex shouldn't be taken as some of distracting relief from life's problems, considering its purpose is procreation. (The oversexed Catholic marriage is a myth. Catholics have much less sex than other people; that's how it how it used to be before birth control, unless the husband was rapist and/or cheating.)

Anyway, welcome to marriage. It's not some kitschy, amazing experience. It's close to Hell on earth if ever there was one. The idealized version is a Protestant lie. Jesus made it Sacrament in the same way a priest blesses someone going into war. I'm just being honest here, don't mind me...

Prayers.

Wow . . .   How sad!  Marriage isn't anything like this - at least not in my experience.  My husband is my partner in everything I do, my best friend, a world class snuggler, sexy as hell, and we have a lot of fun together.  Sex can be timed to minimize chances of conception.  There is still plenty of time to achieve marital bliss - and I've got 5 kids at home and one married.  We never fight about chores, money, or much of anything else.  When we do, it is at most a heated conversation and not a screaming match.  

From a person who is married and happy about it, take xandratax with a grain of salt.  Most people struggle at the outset of marriage.  Most of us work those issues out over time.  In the first two years of my marriage, we had an apartment fire in which we lost everything, three deaths in the family, and my husband lost his job.  We moved cross country and rebuilt our lives.  It was the best thing for our marriage and our finances.  We learned to work together and strive together.  Was it perfect?  No.  But we found a deeper faith and a stronger relationship through it.  

Not everyone is called to marry.  Those of us that are have a gift in our spouse, not a curse.  At least, that's my experience.
Adoption, Home School, and Catholic Family Life:  StolenPears.com
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#13
(03-09-2018, 03:32 PM)Fontevrault Wrote: Wow . . .   How sad!  Marriage isn't anything like this - at least not in my experience.  My husband is my partner in everything I do, my best friend, a world class snuggler, sexy as hell, and we have a lot of fun together.  Sex can be timed to minimize chances of conception.  There is still plenty of time to achieve marital bliss - and I've got 5 kids at home and one married.  We never fight about chores, money, or much of anything else.  When we do, it is at most a heated conversation and not a screaming match.  

From a person who is married and happy about it, take xandratax with a grain of salt.  Most people struggle at the outset of marriage.  Most of us work those issues out over time.  In the first two years of my marriage, we had an apartment fire in which we lost everything, three deaths in the family, and my husband lost his job.  We moved cross country and rebuilt our lives.  It was the best thing for our marriage and our finances.  We learned to work together and strive together.  Was it perfect?  No.  But we found a deeper faith and a stronger relationship through it.  

Not everyone is called to marry.  Those of us that are have a gift in our spouse, not a curse.  At least, that's my experience.

Not everyone is called to have a "happy" marriage either. And for those of who do have difficult marriages, we are totally alone. We are the lepers of the Church; people stay away from us, not even wanting to acknowledge our existence. We cramp everyone's style. I realize that my experience has been especially horrible, but NO ONE ever said anything about the actual hardships of marriage to us during our joke marriage preparation; it was always this kitschy "love" image, meaning love without suffering, love as the Protestants understand it, love without crucifixion. It's dishonest and for someone who is "worried" and "scared" about marriage, it's better to give a well-rounded view, from the other side of the tracks. From someone who lives in marriage poverty. Because she mentioned poverty, and I don't think her fears are exaggerations. For some people it just really SUCKS.
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#14
xandratax, I am truly sorry that you feel spurned by those around you.  I am very sorry that you are in such pain.  If it is OK, I'd like to pray for you.  I feel quite strongly that we are meant to find strength in our partner and courage to work together.  It is sad that you do not experience this. For the record, you are correct: love is sacrificial in nature and that is something we must keep in mind.  I think there's joy in that sacrifice though. 
Adoption, Home School, and Catholic Family Life:  StolenPears.com
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#15
(03-09-2018, 03:46 PM)xandratax Wrote:
(03-09-2018, 03:32 PM)Fontevrault Wrote: Wow . . .   How sad!  Marriage isn't anything like this - at least not in my experience.  My husband is my partner in everything I do, my best friend, a world class snuggler, sexy as hell, and we have a lot of fun together.  Sex can be timed to minimize chances of conception.  There is still plenty of time to achieve marital bliss - and I've got 5 kids at home and one married.  We never fight about chores, money, or much of anything else.  When we do, it is at most a heated conversation and not a screaming match.  

From a person who is married and happy about it, take xandratax with a grain of salt.  Most people struggle at the outset of marriage.  Most of us work those issues out over time.  In the first two years of my marriage, we had an apartment fire in which we lost everything, three deaths in the family, and my husband lost his job.  We moved cross country and rebuilt our lives.  It was the best thing for our marriage and our finances.  We learned to work together and strive together.  Was it perfect?  No.  But we found a deeper faith and a stronger relationship through it.  

Not everyone is called to marry.  Those of us that are have a gift in our spouse, not a curse.  At least, that's my experience.

Not everyone is called to have a "happy" marriage either. And for those of who do have difficult marriages, we are totally alone. We are the lepers of the Church; people stay away from us, not even wanting to acknowledge our existence. We cramp everyone's style. I realize that my experience has been especially horrible, but NO ONE ever said anything about the actual hardships of marriage to us during our joke marriage preparation; it was always this kitschy "love" image, meaning love without suffering, love as the Protestants understand it, love without crucifixion. It's dishonest and for someone who is "worried" and "scared" about marriage, it's better to give a well-rounded view, from the other side of the tracks. From someone who lives in marriage poverty. Because she mentioned poverty, and I don't think her fears are exaggerations. For some people it just really SUCKS.

:awww:
I'm so sorry for what you are going through.

I've been through marriage Hell as well. :(

I've said before that the marriage bed can be the loneliest place on earth!

Poverty can add to stress and problems, it's true.

Although some marriages wouldn't be happy in wealth or poverty.

If the couple can see the problems as outside of themselves it can bond them closer together as they fight off the problems together, working to find solutions.
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#16
SacraCor what's your degree in? You never know, you may be able to find a job in a loosely related field even if it's something like an admin job. Better to sit on your butt with standard 9 to 5 hours and earn a salary than work for minimum wage at the grocery store. Never hurts to look around.

Even if you can find a low level entry level job, it'll be a little bit easier to hold you both over till he finishes school. Definitely encourage him. Electricians make good money and it's a job that will always be needed. Getting going may take a while, but in the end it'll be worth it
Blood of Christ, relief of the burdened, save us.

“It is my design to die in the brew house; let ale be placed in my mouth when I am expiring, that when the choirs of angels come, they may say, “Be God propitious to this drinker.” – St. Columbanus, A.D. 612
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#17
(03-09-2018, 03:53 PM)Fontevrault Wrote: xandratax, I am truly sorry that you feel spurned by those around you.  I am very sorry that you are in such pain.  If it is OK, I'd like to pray for you.  I feel quite strongly that we are meant to find strength in our partner and courage to work together.  It is sad that you do not experience this. For the record, you are correct: love is sacrificial in nature and that is something we must keep in mind.  I think there's joy in that sacrifice though. 

Obviously you don't have to ask someone's permission to pray for them, but I want to steal anyone's attention from the OP's request. My husband and I have learned to get along without other people's prayers, though by all means, pray...

Strange as it may sound, I'm convinced that it is I who should be praying for you. Considering that most people are either alone, living in a sinful relationship or unhappily married, that puts you in a minority of the rich few. As such, you'e in danger of much more elusive sins such as pride, sloth and complacency to the point that you're shocked and struggle to even recognize your neighbor's miserable existence. Because we of the poor relationships are your neighbors, MOST of them. Now coming along and talking about your lovely marriage to people who live in the conjugal gutter, is really the equivalent of a duchess who speaks to the diseased and impoverished of the streets as if her life of riches in the palace is something they should expect, strive for and emulate. Clearly this is impossible, not to mention insulting in showing how oblivious she is to the reality of others' suffering and limitations.

The idea of marriage as misery is not new. In fact, your view is the recent one. Why were stories like Anna Karenina once universally lauded as masterpieces of the human the condition? Heck, even comedies used to take conjugal misery as a source of inspiration, such as the classic farces. God forbid we should acknowledge that now! I often joke that my marriage is 100 years old, precisely for this reason. In a world obsessed with "gay marriage" (original meaning of the term implied there, so ironic and amazing how insightful that is....) those in unhappy marriages are the unwelcome pariahs. But at least I can say for certain that there is joy in sacrifice, without lukewarm the "I think" and "though" bracketing that statement. 

I don't mean to offend you here with my tone. It is none other than the tone that Jesus used himself when he spoke. This is Lent so, so just think about what I said, as you enjoy your cushy home and family, and turn your thoughts to the poor and humiliate yourself. That's why we exist, after all; to suffer so that people like you can be happy. I would never wish ill on anyone happily married, but please for the love of God stop tyrannically heaping your happiness on the unhappy, as if we were doing something wrong and it's all our fault. Like the diseased, it's not as if we CHOSE to be this way. Sorry if my open wounds and pustules bother you, but maybe you should put your own preference for comfort and nicety into question. There are more us than you; most are just too ashamed to actually speak up about it. We just recede into our darkness so that people like you can shine. For the sake of the children and all that....
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#18
(03-10-2018, 06:26 AM)xandratax Wrote:
(03-09-2018, 03:53 PM)Fontevrault Wrote: xandratax, I am truly sorry that you feel spurned by those around you.  I am very sorry that you are in such pain.  If it is OK, I'd like to pray for you.  I feel quite strongly that we are meant to find strength in our partner and courage to work together.  It is sad that you do not experience this. For the record, you are correct: love is sacrificial in nature and that is something we must keep in mind.  I think there's joy in that sacrifice though. 

Obviously you don't have to ask someone's permission to pray for them, but I want to steal anyone's attention from the OP's request. My husband and I have learned to get along without other people's prayers, though by all means, pray...

Strange as it may sound, I'm convinced that it is I who should be praying for you. Considering that most people are either alone, living in a sinful relationship or unhappily married, that puts you in a minority of the rich few. As such, you'e in danger of much more elusive sins such as pride, sloth and complacency to the point that you're shocked and struggle to even recognize your neighbor's miserable existence. Because we of the poor relationships are your neighbors, MOST of them. Now coming along and talking about your lovely marriage to people who live in the conjugal gutter, is really the equivalent of a duchess who speaks to the diseased and impoverished of the streets as if her life of riches in the palace is something they should expect, strive for and emulate. Clearly this is impossible, not to mention insulting in showing how oblivious she is to the reality of others' suffering and limitations.

The idea of marriage as misery is not new. In fact, your view is the recent one. Why were stories like Anna Karenina once universally lauded as masterpieces of the human the condition? Heck, even comedies used to take conjugal misery as a source of inspiration, such as the classic farces. God forbid we should acknowledge that now! I often joke that my marriage is 100 years old, precisely for this reason. In a world obsessed with "gay marriage" (original meaning of the term implied there, so ironic and amazing how insightful that is....) those in unhappy marriages are the unwelcome pariahs. But at least I can say for certain that there is joy in sacrifice, without lukewarm the "I think" and "though" bracketing that statement. 

I don't mean to offend you here with my tone. It is none other than the tone that Jesus used himself when he spoke. This is Lent so, so just think about what I said, as you enjoy your cushy home and family, and turn your thoughts to the poor and humiliate yourself. That's why we exist, after all; to suffer so that people like you can be happy. I would never wish ill on anyone happily married, but please for the love of God stop tyrannically heaping your happiness on the unhappy, as if we were doing something wrong and it's all our fault. Like the diseased, it's not as if we CHOSE to be this way. Sorry if my open wounds and pustules bother you, but maybe you should put your own preference for comfort and nicety into question. There are more us than you; most are just too ashamed to actually speak up about it. We just recede into our darkness so that people like you can shine. For the sake of the children and all that....

I suffered heaps in my marriage, but I find it inspiring and hopeful to hear about Fontrvault's experience.  It gives me hope for my children's marriages.  

She is very fortunate in the marriage category and is describing the way it really should be even if for many of us it doesn't work out that way. She wasn't disparaging you or any of us, only giving the OP encouragement and a vision of what is possible but not guaranteed.  If you notice her post, she did describe a great deal of suffering in her life.  We all have it in one way or another.

Xandratax, I'm so sorry for your suffering, but bitterness and envy do not become you.
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#19
Marriage as misery should not be the standard. I'm on only married 3 years, but have been with my wife for 11. It's not always easy and certainly not perfect, but my wife is my best friend and I couldn't imagine being with anyone else.

That said, Mary and Joseph should be the epitome of marriage and what all should aspire for. One cannot say that they had a poor marriage. Certainly they suffered greatly, but not due to misery of being together.  Instead, with the help of God they managed to get through all of those struggles and hardships together.
Blood of Christ, relief of the burdened, save us.

“It is my design to die in the brew house; let ale be placed in my mouth when I am expiring, that when the choirs of angels come, they may say, “Be God propitious to this drinker.” – St. Columbanus, A.D. 612
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#20
Thank you for your prayers and thoughts, everyone.

My degree is in English. In other words, burgers and fries :rolleyes:  It was the only degree I was able to grasp as I struggled through college. In all reality, I probably should not have gone to college.

If any of you are praying the St. Joseph novena from praymorenovenas.com, please mention my fiance and I in your intentions.
St. Joseph, Terror of Demons, Pillar of Families, Glory of Domestic Life, Pray for Us!
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