Is it true that Freemasons hijacked Vatican 2?
#31
This has been an interesting read. As someone who recently cut ties with many friends because of their involvement in similar groups as the Freemasons, I can see a LOT of similarity between the stuff they always talked about and the things which have taken place between Vatican II and now. Thanks for having this discussion. It's a lot to think about. I wonder if there is any hope of recovery for the NO churches or if it's better to jump ship entirely. Part of me feels like it's our responsibility to try and help them realize all of this.

I am very thankful for finding this community BEFORE entering the Church. You all have kept me from falling into quite a few 'traps' and falling into un-Catholic practices.
I am in the process of discerning my vocation with the help of my priest. If you would like to read my thoughts as I progress through this process of discernment feel free to visit my blog: https://demarianumquamsatis.com/
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#32
The best book on this subject is actually fun to read because of the author's humor. In it, the Freemason Buignini is followed through his changing the Mass. It is well documented, and could not have been written earlier because documents were not released earlier. It is wise to remember that priests in these small groups are nearly always sincere and self-sacrificing for the sake of our souls. They often are persecuted for standing up to the Masonic mind set which seems to have permeated Novus Ordo. This is nothing new. The Gnostics 2nd century tried to re-paganize Christians by using Christian terminology. For several hundred years the Arius crises dominated the thinking of many, if not the majority of Catholics. A minority of priests and prelates resisted with the truth. Though I would take these groups with a grain of salt, I also truly value of what they uncover and try to warn us. Here is the book https://www.amazon.com/Work-Human-Hands-...0982686706

I hope you enjoy it.
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#33
Many have tried for decades to place a traditional Mass, or even the Chant Mass in a Novus Ordo church. Those who attend are usually marginalized and their Masses cancelled after about a two year average. Volunteer jobs in the parish are given to traditional people (usually never the paid teaching or secretarial jobs) which causes them to form an attachment to the "community". Then they do not leave for a traditional Mass and usually end up suffering for it, and gradually become liberalized.
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#34
The best book on this is Work of Human Hands by Rev. Cekada.
https://sggresources.org/products/work-o...ony-cekada

It is about half the price of Amazon.com
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#35
(03-15-2018, 10:45 AM)IntoTheMystic Wrote: This has been an interesting read. As someone who recently cut ties with many friends because of their involvement in similar groups as the Freemasons, I can see a LOT of similarity between the stuff they always talked about and the things which have taken place between Vatican II and now. Thanks for having this discussion. It's a lot to think about. I wonder if there is any hope of recovery for the NO churches or if it's better to jump ship entirely. Part of me feels like it's our responsibility to try and help them realize all of this.

I am very thankful for finding this community BEFORE entering the Church. You all have kept me from falling into quite a few 'traps' and falling into un-Catholic practices.

There are many people here who are of the mind that the best way to help the Church is to stay with the NO for the reason you described: """helping people realize their mistakes."""

I disagree.  Then again, maybe there isn't one right or wrong way.  But I also think that if attendance at SSPX masses swelled, the Church would have little recourse but to continue to accommodate them.  And in fact, the Church DOES constantly work to placate the SSPX by keeping dialog open.  

In contrast, look at what happens to those who try to change the Church from the "inside."  What Pope Francis did to the FFI is probably the most illustrative.  That's not to say I don't respect these people, and I certainly respect the FSSP.  I just believe that the future to a rightward shift in the Church will ultimately depend on what the SSPX is doing.  

As for jumping ship - no, that's just going to make you lose your soul.
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#36
(03-18-2018, 07:15 PM)greatdame Wrote: In it, the Freemason Buignini is followed through his changing the Mass.

Much as I might disagree with Fr Cekada on other issues, he's done a good job here. Still, I would argue that Msgr Bugnini was not a lone wolf, and whether he was a mason or not has little if anything to do with the problem, at least directly.

(03-18-2018, 07:15 PM)greatdame Wrote: The Gnostics 2nd century tried to re-paganize Christians by using Christian terminology. For several hundred years the Arius crises dominated the thinking of many, if not the majority of Catholics.  A minority of priests and prelates resisted with the truth.


Here I take issue, since that just doesn't square with Church history. The Arian Crisis lasted about 50 years. It was pretty well definitively crushed and few remnants remained afterward. It certainly was not "several hundred years".

Perhaps you would care to elaborate on what you mean, because as it stands this sounds like historical inaccuracy.
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