Gaudete et exsultate
#11
(04-12-2018, 08:51 AM)Jeeter Wrote:
(04-12-2018, 02:27 AM)Paul Wrote: So it's wrong to become a cloistered nun who stays in her convent and prays? They serve the world through prayer, not by going outside their walls and "doing things".

It would appear that way.  I did notice his statement about "carrying out our proper mission," but now I'm wondering if he considers being cloistered a "mission" anymore.

More confusion from this pontificate...
Peace.....there is a lot there to digest; it's not easy at all.  I am concerned that reciting the Rosary will become an issue because those outside the faith do not agree with the repetition of prayers.  God bless, angeltime :heart:
Reply
#12
(04-12-2018, 08:51 AM)Jeeter Wrote: It would appear that way.  I did notice his statement about "carrying out our proper mission," but now I'm wondering if he considers being cloistered a "mission" anymore.

Sort of like how the laity aren't actually participating at Mass unless their mouths are moving or they're in the sanctuary.
[-] The following 2 users Like Paul's post:
  • angeltime, jovan66102
Reply
#13
(04-12-2018, 12:17 PM)Paul Wrote:
(04-12-2018, 08:51 AM)Jeeter Wrote: It would appear that way.  I did notice his statement about "carrying out our proper mission," but now I'm wondering if he considers being cloistered a "mission" anymore.

Sort of like how the laity aren't actually participating at Mass unless their mouths are moving or they're in the sanctuary.

I'm waiting on him to encourage speaking in tongues and snake handling.
-sent by howitzer via the breech.

God's love is manifest in the landscape as in a face.  - John Muir

I want creation to penetrate you with so much admiration that wherever you go, the least plant may bring you clear remembrance of the Creator.  A single plant, a blade of grass, or one speck of dust is sufficient to occupy all your intelligence in beholding the art with which it has been made  - Saint Basil

Heaven is under our feet, as well as over our heads. - Thoreau, Walden
[-] The following 1 user Likes Jeeter's post:
  • CaptCrunch73
Reply
#14
(04-12-2018, 01:47 PM)Jeeter Wrote: I'm waiting on him to encourage speaking in tongues

Does Latin count?
Reply
#15
I don't think he's saying the cloistered vocation is not a valid mission anymore, but this is just my interpretation. I take this to mean one who is not called to the vocation shouldn't go and do it. It's not running away from the world etc if you are truly called to be a cloistered contemplative. It would be running towards your mission - to be a contemplative. However, one who thinks they are going to run to a convent to escape from social interaction, responsibility, etc. would be 'running' from their true mission.

If someone is reserved, spends a lot of time in mental prayer, and attends Mass regularly without feeling like they are not 'missing out' by 'giving up' a social life to live a very devout like and one day wake up and think "huh, I should start discerning if I have a vocation to a contemplative life" it is more likely they have this "mission" than one who starts to live a similar life and feels as if they are 'missing out' on a social life by adopting a devout life.

I think what he is trying to say - through most of the document - is to take the time to discern what your true vocation is, and that this requires a good theological knowledge, spiritual knowledge, and self-knowledge (which he seemed to touch on throughout the document). Don't look to the religious life etc as a 'way out' of "regular life". It puts, in my interpretation, the vocation of married life on the same level as contemplatives IF that is the individual's true vocation. To go and be a contemplative for someone who is supposed to be the mother of many children isn't likely to get her to Sainthood as fast as say being a mother. In fact, it could impede her doing so as it would not be within her God-given abilities to do so.

I hope I'm making sense? I'm not a fan of the current Pope, but I do think this document was not as awful as many are making it out to be. *hides in the corner*
I am in the process of discerning my vocation with the help of my priest. If you would like to read my thoughts as I progress through this process of discernment feel free to visit my blog: https://walkingthelittleway.com
Reply
#16
(04-12-2018, 06:46 PM)IntoTheMystic Wrote: I don't think he's saying the cloistered vocation is not a valid mission anymore, but this is just my interpretation. I take this to mean one who is not called to the vocation shouldn't go and do it. It's not running away from the world etc if you are truly called to be a cloistered contemplative. It would be running towards your mission - to be a contemplative. However, one who thinks they are going to run to a convent to escape from social interaction, responsibility, etc. would be 'running' from their true mission.

If someone is reserved, spends a lot of time in mental prayer, and attends Mass regularly without feeling like they are not 'missing out' by 'giving up' a social life to live a very devout like and one day wake up and think "huh, I should start discerning if I have a vocation to a contemplative life" it is more likely they have this "mission" than one who starts to live a similar life and feels as if they are 'missing out' on a social life by adopting a devout life.

I think what he is trying to say - through most of the document - is to take the time to discern what your true vocation is, and that this requires a good theological knowledge, spiritual knowledge, and self-knowledge (which he seemed to touch on throughout the document). Don't look to the religious life etc as a 'way out' of "regular life". It puts, in my interpretation, the vocation of married life on the same level as contemplatives IF that is the individual's true vocation. To go and be a contemplative for someone who is supposed to be the mother of many children isn't likely to get her to Sainthood as fast as say being a mother. In fact, it could impede her doing so as it would not be within her God-given abilities to do so.

I hope I'm making sense? I'm not a fan of the current Pope, but I do think this document was not as awful as many are making it out to be. *hides in the corner*
Peace.....it's like here we go again - maybe he meant this or maybe he meant that - I read the section again about Contemplative Orders - I am understanding him to be specifically speaking about Contemplative Orders themselves because he said that Contemplative Orders apart from the world are unhealthy.  Not the people discerning a vocation.  He goes on to say that everything can be integrated into our life; into our world.  (meaning to become one) Finally, he says we are contemplatives in action - our PROPER mission.  God bless, angeltime :pray2: :incense:
[-] The following 1 user Likes angeltime's post:
  • IntoTheMystic
Reply
#17
(04-12-2018, 06:46 PM)IntoTheMystic Wrote: I don't think he's saying the cloistered vocation is not a valid mission anymore, 

With all due respect, ITM, I think you've got your rose coloured glasses on. He said,


Quote:26. It is not healthy to love silence while fleeing interaction with others, to want peace and quiet while avoiding activity, to seek prayer while disdaining service. Everything can be accepted and integrated into our life in this world, and become a part of our path to holiness. We are called to be contemplatives even in the midst of action, and to grow in holiness by responsibly and generously carrying out our proper mission.

My highlights are pretty much a condemnation of the contemplative life that has produced many saints. It's also obvious that he doesn't consider praying for the Church and the world to be 'service'.

Is he going to change the Code of Canon Law so it no longer says,

Quote:Can. 603 §1. In addition to institutes of consecrated life, the Church recognizes the eremitic or anchoritic life by which the Christian faithful devote their life to the praise of God and the salvation of the world through a stricter withdrawal from the world, the silence of solitude, and assiduous prayer and penance.
?
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
  “Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog also.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'


[-] The following 2 users Like jovan66102's post:
  • angeltime, IntoTheMystic
Reply
#18
(04-12-2018, 07:47 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(04-12-2018, 06:46 PM)IntoTheMystic Wrote: I don't think he's saying the cloistered vocation is not a valid mission anymore, 

With all due respect, ITM, I think you've got your rose coloured glasses on. He said,


Quote:26. It is not healthy to love silence while fleeing interaction with others, to want peace and quiet while avoiding activity, to seek prayer while disdaining service. Everything can be accepted and integrated into our life in this world, and become a part of our path to holiness. We are called to be contemplatives even in the midst of action, and to grow in holiness by responsibly and generously carrying out our proper mission.

My highlights are pretty much a condemnation of the contemplative life that has produced many saints. It's also obvious that he doesn't consider praying for the Church and the world to be 'service'.

Is he going to change the Code of Canon Law so it no longer says,

Quote:Can. 603 §1. In addition to institutes of consecrated life, the Church recognizes the eremitic or anchoritic life by which the Christian faithful devote their life to the praise of God and the salvation of the world through a stricter withdrawal from the world, the silence of solitude, and assiduous prayer and penance.
?
Peace.....prayer is also the soul of the Church and most Bishops (perhaps not today) feel blessed to have a cloister or contemplative community in their diocese.  I have known where Bishops will write to a community out of town/state or province to invite sisters to come and start a community of cloisters or contemplatives in his own diocese.  God bless, angeltime :heart:
Reply
#19
(04-12-2018, 07:53 PM)angeltime Wrote: Peace.....prayer is also the soul of the Church and most Bishops (perhaps not today) feel blessed to have a cloister or contemplative community in their diocese.  I have known where Bishops will write to a community out of town/state or province to invite sisters to come and start a community of cloisters or contemplatives in his own diocese.  God bless, angeltime :heart:

Oh, I know! We have two in our Diocese, the Sister Servants of the Holy Spirit of Perpetual Adoration, known around here as the Pink Sisters from their rose coloured habits, who were invited to come to Lincoln by His Excellency Glennon Flavin in 1973, and the Traditional Carmel of Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, which I think is served by FSSP Priests, and which moved here from Los Vegas a bit over 15 years ago.
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
  “Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog also.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'


Reply
#20
Completely reasonable considerations, and concerns. I think you may be right about the 'rose colored glasses'. I think I'm just hoping to see something...anything...positive come out of this Pope. I would like to hope some clarifications/responses to these types of concerns are addressed soon because I can't possibly imagine he would truly seek to do away with the contemplative life...but, I mean...I guess I shouldn't be surprised if he does  :(
I am in the process of discerning my vocation with the help of my priest. If you would like to read my thoughts as I progress through this process of discernment feel free to visit my blog: https://walkingthelittleway.com
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)