Question about mainline Protestant interpretation of the Gospels
#1
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I had an online debate with an Episcopal Pastor that thought he was really educated and smart because he studied Theology at a Protestant seminary. He argued that Jesus did not preach on the afterlife but was rather focused on this world instead of eternity. 

He said we need to read Scriptures in context. He said when Jesus said "enter through the narrow gate" he wasn't speaking about Heaven or Hell but was rather speaking of living like Jesus in this world only. 

What is your response to this guy?
“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
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#2
As Colonel Potter would have said, if you know who that is, 'Horse Hockey'. Not only is it bollocks, it's not even the common doctrine of the Episcopal Church. I was an Anglican for years and I never heard anything approaching that.

How does he explain away Dives and Lazarus? You know, the Rich Man burning in hell. Jesus certainly talked about the after life in that story.
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
  “Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog also.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'


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#3
(04-13-2018, 12:00 AM)jovan66102 Wrote: As Colonel Potter would have said, if you know who that is, 'Horse Hockey'. Not only is it bollocks, it's not even the common doctrine of the Episcopal Church. I was an Anglican for years and I never heard anything approaching that.

How does he explain away Dives and Lazarus? You know, the Rich Man burning in hell. Jesus certainly talked about the after life in that story.

This Pastor argued that the word "Hell" did not mean the term as we know it. He argued that it was Dante's Inferno that made that version of Hell. 

The Pastor was trying to argue that Hell does not exist.
“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
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#4
Ask him about Dives and Lazarus. Sounds like he's a disciple of Pope Francis.

Also point out Matthew 25:41. Jesus said when the Son of Man comes  he will separate people from one another as a shepherd separates sheep from goats, and will consign to everlasting fire those who failed to aid "the least of his brothers". 


Quote:Matt 25:41, Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels.

And hammer Dives and Lazarus!


Quote:Luke 16:19-31 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
19 There was a certain rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen; and feasted sumptuously every day.
20 And there was a certain beggar, named Lazarus, who lay at his gate, full of sores,
21 Desiring to be filled with the crumbs that fell from the rich man's table, and no one did give him; moreover the dogs came, and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom. And the rich man also died: and he was buried in hell.
23 And lifting up his eyes when he was in torments, he saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom:
24 And he cried, and said: Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, to cool my tongue: for I am tormented in this flame.
25 And Abraham said to him: Son, remember that thou didst receive good things in thy lifetime, and likewise Lazareth evil things, but now he is comforted; and thou art tormented.
26 And besides all this, between us and you, there is fixed a great chaos: so that they who would pass from hence to you, cannot, nor from thence come hither.
27 And he said: Then, father, I beseech thee, that thou wouldst send him to my father's house, for I have five brethren,
28 That he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torments.
29 And Abraham said to him: They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 But he said: No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will do penance.
31 And he said to him: If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they believe, if one rise again from the dead.


I would say that Our Lord was quite explicit in His teaching on hell as a place of fiery torment.
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
  “Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog also.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'


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#5
"The Pastor was trying to argue that Hell does not exist."

The logical "progression" of Protestantism and modernism as Pope Pius X (?) warned. One or two more steps down leads to atheism.
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#6
(04-12-2018, 11:45 PM)BrianW99 Wrote: I had an online debate with an Episcopal Pastor that thought he was really educated and smart because he studied Theology at a Protestant seminary. He argued that Jesus did not preach on the afterlife but was rather focused on this world instead of eternity. 

He said we need to read Scriptures in context. He said when Jesus said "enter through the narrow gate" he wasn't speaking about Heaven or Hell but was rather speaking of living like Jesus in this world only. 

What is your response to this guy?
Peace.....Jesus was constantly talking and preaching about the Kingdom He came from - He was not of this world!  His purpose for being here was to show us how to get there too - and live in all eternity with Him and the Father.  God bless, angeltime Heart
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#7
(04-13-2018, 12:02 AM)BrianW99 Wrote: This Pastor argued that the word "Hell" did not mean the term as we know it. He argued that it was Dante's Inferno that made that version of Hell. 

The Pastor was trying to argue that Hell does not exist.

Then I would ask for the "pastor" to justify his existence.

Why be an Episcopalian, or a Christian for that matter?
Why not believe in killing people for 71 eternal virgins?

Why should he not go out and work a real job, instead of scamming people for money, so he can say a bunch of superfluous nonsense and work only a few hours a week on Sunday? Why can't his "parishoners" spend all the money they put into the coffers, instead on hookers and blow...sounds like the latter is much more satisfying and rewarding.

I would definitely argue that if there is no Hell, then his whole existence is pointless and useless.
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#8
(04-13-2018, 02:05 PM)austenbosten Wrote:
(04-13-2018, 12:02 AM)BrianW99 Wrote: This Pastor argued that the word "Hell" did not mean the term as we know it. He argued that it was Dante's Inferno that made that version of Hell. 

The Pastor was trying to argue that Hell does not exist.

Then I would ask for the "pastor" to justify his existence.  

Why be an Episcopalian, or a Christian for that matter?  
Why not believe in killing people for 71 eternal virgins?

Why should he not go out and work a real job, instead of scamming people for money, so he can say a bunch of superfluous nonsense and work only a few hours a week on Sunday?  Why can't his "parishoners" spend all the money they put into the coffers, instead on hookers and blow...sounds like the latter is much more satisfying and rewarding.

I would definitely argue that if there is no Hell, then his whole existence is pointless and useless.
Peace.....if one believes there is no hell, then one also believes there is no heaven! 
 God bless, angeltime Heart
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#9
(04-13-2018, 12:02 AM)BrianW99 Wrote:
(04-13-2018, 12:00 AM)jovan66102 Wrote: As Colonel Potter would have said, if you know who that is, 'Horse Hockey'. Not only is it bollocks, it's not even the common doctrine of the Episcopal Church. I was an Anglican for years and I never heard anything approaching that.

How does he explain away Dives and Lazarus? You know, the Rich Man burning in hell. Jesus certainly talked about the after life in that story.

This Pastor argued that the word "Hell" did not mean the term as we know it. He argued that it was Dante's Inferno that made that version of Hell. 

The Pastor was trying to argue that Hell does not exist.

I know Hell exists and would presume it does even if I weren't a traditional Catholic

it only makes sense that those who love evil and don't love God would NOT go be w ith Him (and his friends) in the next realm. it makes more sense to s ay you don't believe in either Heaven or Hell  than to disbelieve in Hell only.

and if you don't go be w ith God, it also stands to reason, that all the good that God has provided you in this lire.. will be gone in that icky realm down below and it also only makes sense that you would be there forever. If you and your horrible sins that you never let go of were allowed in Heaven, it would cease to be heaven. Hell is the "eternal now" as someone once put it...
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#10
I was raised Episcopal (baptized but nit confirmed) and it wasn't until I joined the Catholic Church that my eyes were opened.  Protestants believe in once saved always saved.  Just utter the words "I believe in Jesus as the Savior", or something along those lines, and POOF you're good to go.  This is such a dangerous way of thinking because it destroys conviction of sin and makes you believe you can do whatever you want in this world because it doesn't matter anymore thus continue living "in and of the world" i.e. pursue lavish lifestyles, gossip, rationalize politics with religion, going to church whenever you feel like it, etc.

I'm not saying Protestants are going to hell by default but there will come a time when they will face a decision to turn to the One True Church of Jesus Christ or continue living and serving the world.
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