Striking one's breast at the Confíteor
#1
So, today I went to the first Low Mass that I've been to in quite a while (there used to only be a Missa Cantata on the 2nd and 4th Sundays near me, very recently Low Mass on the 1st Sunday was added). I was talking to a friend of mine and his mom after Mass, and I mentioned that I had only learned on Thursday that a double genuflection was customary when approaching/leaving the presence of the exposed Blessed Sacrament; I had been making a single, right-knee genuflection this whole time. 

We got to talking some more and his mom asked if I striked my breast during the Confíteor. I said yes, and she replied that technically one shouldn't do that at Mass because you're putting yourself in the place of the server or something like that (basically, putting yourself in a position you shouldn't be in was the gist of it, I think). She also said she thought my breast-strikes were too loud and said that they should basically be inaudible (she was in the next pew over). I didn't know what to say, so I was just like "ok."

I always thought that posture and gesture at the TLM is not regulated, so I looked up this article which confirmed this.

At Mass I cross myself at certain times and strike my breast 3 times at the people's Confíteor, 3 times each when the bells are rung at the elevation of the Host and Chalice, 1 time at the Nobis Quoque Peccatoribus, 1 time at the "dimitte nobis debita nostra" of the Pater noster, 3 times during the Agnus Dei, and 3 times during the people's Domine, non sum dignus.

I think the only debatable one would really be whether or not one should do it at the Nobis Quoque Peccatoribus, but I would have to respectfully disagree with my friend's mom about any others.
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#2
You're right and she's wrong. She definitely wouldn't like me. I 'thunk' my sternum with a closed fist, and it probably makes a solid sound. No one has ever complained, tho'.
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#3
You wouldn't happen to be referring to Holy Comfortor in Charlottesville would you?

Im still getting the hang of low masses but I at the very least do it at the peoples Domine non sum because that's easy to keep track of.
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#4
(05-07-2018, 02:35 AM)Dominicus Wrote: You wouldn't happen to be referring to Holy Comfortor in Charlottesville would you?

Im still getting the hang of low masses but I at the very least do it at the peoples Domine non sum because that's easy to keep track of.

Nah, they live in Oklahoma and they're in town here in central Oregon. This was at St. Edward the Martyr's in Sisters, which is basically the most liberal parish in the diocese with the most traditional priest in the diocese, ironically.

Posture and gesture at Mass is essentially up to personal preference and piety.

I wonder what this Charlottesville church is like... :P
Corpus Christi, salva me.

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#5
(05-07-2018, 02:43 AM)LaudeturIesus Wrote:
(05-07-2018, 02:35 AM)Dominicus Wrote: You wouldn't happen to be referring to Holy Comfortor in Charlottesville would you?

Im still getting the hang of low masses but I at the very least do it at the peoples Domine non sum because that's easy to keep track of.

Nah, they live in Oklahoma and they're in town here in central Oregon. This was at St. Edward the Martyr's in Sisters, which is basically the most liberal parish in the diocese with the most traditional priest in the diocese, ironically.

Posture and gesture at Mass is essentially up to personal preference and piety.

I wonder what this Charlottesville church is like... :P

I was just wondering because I live near there and they have that same mass schedule. I don't attend very often though because it's a trek.
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#6
(05-07-2018, 02:11 AM)LaudeturIesus Wrote: So, today I went to the first Low Mass that I've been to in quite a while (there used to only be a Missa Cantata on the 2nd and 4th Sundays near me, very recently Low Mass on the 1st Sunday was added). I was talking to a friend of mine and his mom after Mass, and I mentioned that I had only learned on Thursday that a double genuflection was customary when approaching/leaving the presence of the exposed Blessed Sacrament; I had been making a single, right-knee genuflection this whole time. 

We got to talking some more and his mom asked if I striked my breast during the Confíteor. I said yes, and she replied that technically one shouldn't do that at Mass because you're putting yourself in the place of the server or something like that (basically, putting yourself in a position you shouldn't be in was the gist of it, I think). She also said she thought my breast-strikes were too loud and said that they should basically be inaudible (she was in the next pew over). I didn't know what to say, so I was just like "ok."

I always thought that posture and gesture at the TLM is not regulated, so I looked up this article which confirmed this.

At Mass I cross myself at certain times and strike my breast 3 times at the people's Confíteor, 3 times each when the bells are rung at the elevation of the Host and Chalice, 1 time at the Nobis Quoque Peccatoribus, 1 time at the "dimitte nobis debita nostra" of the Pater noster, 3 times during the Agnus Dei, and 3 times during the people's Domine, non sum dignus.

I think the only debatable one would really be whether or not one should do it at the Nobis Quoque Peccatoribus, but I would have to respectfully disagree with my friend's mom about any others.

The only clerical function that the server does at the altar is his presentation of the cruets, ringing of the bell, and movements about the sanctuary. Most of the rest of the responses are actually replies that the faithful normally would make. A few are those of the deacon and subdeacon.

At a low Mass most of the responses are done on behalf of the faithful. He responds when the faithful would reply at a Sung Mass. Thus, in large part he is doing what the faithful should do, at least by way of example.

Thus you can reasonably follow the same gestures that he does and probably should omit gesture he does not do.

A server only strikes his breast at the Confiteor during the prayers at the foot, the Confiteor before Communion (if it is done), the Agnus Dei and Domine non sum dignus for the faithful's Communion. None of the other actions during Mass suggest that the server show this penitential gesture.

So, I would suggest that you omit doing so at the elevation (since this is not a penitential time, but one of adoration, and striking of the breast is not a gesture of adoration), omit it at the Nobis Quoque (since the server does not do this, only the priest), and omit the gesture at the Pater Noster (since even the priest does not do this).

Occasionally some also do this during the Salve Regina, but similarly "O clement, O pia, O dulcis" are nor penitential, so the gesture makes little sense here.
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#7
(05-07-2018, 02:15 AM)jovan66102 Wrote: You're right and she's wrong. She definitely wouldn't like me. I 'thunk' my sternum with a closed fist, and it probably makes a solid sound. No one has ever complained, tho'.

In the winter-time I will normally wear my leather jacket and beat forcefully on my right pectoral with a closed fist....yea I don't think she would like me either *thump* *thump* *thump*

Charles Coloumbe is notorious for loud thumping of the chest at the Confitor
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#8
(05-07-2018, 06:42 AM)austenbosten Wrote:
(05-07-2018, 02:15 AM)jovan66102 Wrote: You're right and she's wrong. She definitely wouldn't like me. I 'thunk' my sternum with a closed fist, and it probably makes a solid sound. No one has ever complained, tho'.

In the winter-time I will normally wear my leather jacket and beat forcefully on my right pectoral with a closed fist....yea I don't think she would like me either *thump* *thump* *thump*

Charles Coloumbe is notorious for loud thumping of the chest at the Confitor

Yeah, but the Tarzan yell is just over the top! :P
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#9
I'm sure you also have people who don't like it if the people in the pews sing along with the choir or say the responses along with the servers too. The way I see it is that the servers and the choir do stuff on behalf of the people, so if you know what they're doing and you want to do it, then do it along with them. I would say that the responding with the servers should be done in a sotto voce type voice as it could be a distraction for others. While doing something like singing the propers completely out of key or just badly would be a silly thing to do, but no one would get on anyone's case for singing the Gloria or the Credo.
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#10
(05-07-2018, 08:06 AM)GangGreen Wrote: I'm sure you also have people who don't like it if the people in the pews sing along with the choir or say the responses along with the servers too. The way I see it is that the servers and the choir do stuff on behalf of the people, so if you know what they're doing and you want to do it, then do it along with them. I would say that the responding with the servers should be done in a sotto voce type voice as it could be a distraction for others. While doing something like singing the propers completely out of key or just badly would be a silly thing to do, but no one would get on anyone's case for singing the Gloria or the Credo.

I’ve been to Latin Masses where the priest actually asked the people to not say the servers’ responses. I really appreciated that. One of the things I like about the Latin Mass is that I am a lot more free to meditate. There seems to be this mindset that we must always be saying or doing something (think Mary and Martha). I expect it in the Novus Ordo, but I am surprised at how it has spilled over into tradition. There’s nothing prohibiting it, but the rubrics don’t really say a lot about what the laity are supposed to be doing. I’d just do what helps you meditate and don’t do what doesn’t. Also, try to be conscientious about whether our behavior could be seriously distracting to others (and an attempt to get others’ attention).
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