Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes
#6
(05-11-2018, 01:35 AM)Dominicus Wrote: Perhaps so, but does the motive change the facts? If he is canonized (or beatified) then it doesn't matter what he did or why he was canonized, the Church says he's probably in heaven so we should accept that. Even if he committed grave sins, we should give him the benefit of the doubt. 

Roma locusts est, causa finite est.

Firstly, beatifications have never been considered an infallible act.

Secondly, Paul VI is not yet canonized.

Thirdly, what precisely constitutes the determination of a canonization is now subject to debate given the changing nature of "Sanctity" especially when previously the process was extremely stringent such that even men of high virtue, but not proven heroic virtue would not make it past the first hurdle in the local process. Now when we have Popes speaking of "ordinary virtue" being sufficient for beatification, there is serious questions as to what is really being defined. If it is merely that "this person is in heaven" then it's a pretty stringent process that lots of people could qualify for, so clearly there was, at least traditionally much more involved : the idea that, if I do what this person did, I will save my soul and also go to heaven.

One would wonder that in the case of a John Paul II or Paul VI.

Were I to go and call together a bunch of Protestants, Jews, Muslims and Pagans for peace, it would be a grave sin against the First Commandment, and a grave scandal toward other Catholics.

Somehow the Pope doing this is okay, and virtuous?

Fourthly, while historically, due at least in part to the rigors of the process, the majority of theologians (but not all) accepted that a canonization was an infallible act, such an act does not magically sanate the process. If errors are made in determining the person's virtue, or in determining a miracle, or in examining the writings, the canonization ceremony does not fix these. Thus, if one were canonized without a miracle because of an exception to the already paper-thin process (e.g. John XXIII), or if a miracle then were there an error in the previous work, the canonization doesn't fix these errors.

If a miracle were attributed that turned out not to be a miracle, for instance, then a canonization or beatification process based on this could legitimately be called into question.

As Fr. Jean-Michel Gleize, SSPX, writes (my emphasis):

Quote:The formal object of the magisterial act of canonization is the saint’s practice of the virtues in a heroic degree.

Just as the magisterium is traditional because it always teaches the same immutable truths, so also is canonization traditional because it ought always to point out the same heroic practice of the Christian virtues, beginning with the theological virtues.

Consequently, if the pope sets forth as an example the life of one of the faithful departed who had not practiced the virtues in the heroic degree, or if he shows them under a new perspective, as inspired more by the dignity of human nature than by the supernatural action of the Holy Ghost, one cannot see in what way this act would constitute a canonization. To change the object is to change the act.

This change of perspective can be seen in the new theology and the post-conciliar magisterium. The distinction between a common sanctity and the heroic sanctity in which holiness properly so-called consists, is silenced. The very term “heroic virtue” does not appear anywhere in the texts of Vatican II. And in fact, since the Council, when theologians speak of the act of heroic virtue, they tend more or less to define it by distinguishing it from an act of simply natural virtue, instead of distinguishing it from an ordinary act of supernatural virtue.
Or, as one priest put it to me, "canonization does whatever it will do, but what it does not do is oblige me to pray to the man, or call him a Saint."
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Messages In This Thread
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-10-2018, 06:18 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-11-2018, 01:25 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by MagisterMusicae - 05-11-2018, 02:34 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-11-2018, 01:26 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-14-2018, 05:07 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-15-2018, 02:59 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-12-2018, 08:42 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-13-2018, 12:11 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-29-2018, 10:25 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-30-2018, 01:11 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-30-2018, 02:19 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-30-2018, 09:02 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-30-2018, 02:16 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-31-2018, 01:10 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-01-2018, 09:52 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-02-2018, 08:11 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-03-2018, 02:56 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-12-2018, 03:54 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-12-2018, 05:17 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 10:08 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:14 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 11:04 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-15-2018, 12:16 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-18-2018, 03:46 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-18-2018, 05:25 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-15-2018, 12:14 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:21 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:39 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:35 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:42 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 03:01 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 04:54 PM



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