Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes
#62
(05-30-2018, 09:31 PM)Vulgate Wrote:
(05-30-2018, 12:38 AM)pabbie Wrote: There's no way. It's completely contradictory to say the Church can come to multiple erroneous conclusions on qualities such as heroic virtue and required miracles, and have these erroneous conclusions then lead up to one infallible conclusion - the canonization of the person. There is no way that the Church teaches such a thing.

But, of course, the Church does not explicitly teach that all aspects of canonization are infallible, right?
In fact, the Church teaches that infallibility rests on infallible decrees. There is nothing in the canonization that makes the declaration of heroic virtue, worthy of emulation, confirmation of miracles, etc. infallible. 
 What is bizarre is that we can say everything the Church looks at and decides about a candidate is somehow infallible – when in fact that canonization declaration does not name anything other than the person is a saint.
 
(05-30-2018, 01:13 AM)pabbie Wrote: the definition I just posted says otherwise.
 
The Catholic dictionary from 1940s is not infallible and does not have any binding authority behind it.  It’s also not clear as to what exactly is infallible in the process.
 
The quote I gave you from the Catholic Encyclopedia isn’t infallible either, but it makes note that the infallible declaration used in canonization do not automatically make everything in the process an infallible decision.
 
Its object is to declare someone a saint. And we already know, that there can be saints in heaven who should not be propped up as worthy of emulation. And we know that there can be people in heaven who did not practice heroic virtue in life. Therefore, it does not follow that the canonization declaration is infallible within all aspects.
 
You are making up your own rules here. You take "A Catholic Dictionary", a very trusted resource with imprimatur, and toss it out as worthless, then refer to the Catholic Encyclopedia which holds the same weight. Something doesn't need to be defined solemnly for us to believe it, so Catholics need to stop using the "not infallible" argument - it's a false argument.

If the Church makes an infallible declaration, then all information gathered to come to that conclusion must also be free from error. You can't have a single error in a multistep equation and expect to come out to a true answer. Picking apart the canonization process looking for errors is nothing but a novelty. If a Pope canonizes someone we cannot question it or pick it apart looking for flaws. As mentioned already, the only way we can possibly question it is if the Pope has no authority due to invalid election, or lost authority due to heresy. Other than that Catholics cannot question infallible declarations in any way.
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Messages In This Thread
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-10-2018, 06:18 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-11-2018, 01:25 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-11-2018, 01:26 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-14-2018, 05:07 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-15-2018, 02:59 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-12-2018, 08:42 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-13-2018, 12:11 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-29-2018, 10:25 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-30-2018, 01:11 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-30-2018, 02:19 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-30-2018, 09:02 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-30-2018, 02:16 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by pabbie - 05-30-2018, 10:03 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-31-2018, 01:10 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-01-2018, 09:52 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-02-2018, 08:11 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-03-2018, 02:56 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-12-2018, 03:54 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-12-2018, 05:17 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 10:08 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:14 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 11:04 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-15-2018, 12:16 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-18-2018, 03:46 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-18-2018, 05:25 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-15-2018, 12:14 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:21 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:39 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:35 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:42 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 03:01 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 04:54 PM



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