Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes
#68
(05-31-2018, 04:48 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(05-31-2018, 12:23 PM)pabbie Wrote: I have already provided you with a trusted source with imprimatur that confirms that when someone is canonized, that infallible declaration is also a confirmation of heroic virtue. That's what the definition states and you simply tossed it aside and said it's "not infallible". You have no grounds for doing so.

One source does not theology make.

(05-31-2018, 12:23 PM)pabbie Wrote: I am with you 100% in that some of JP II's actions were clearly not that of a saint, and I have already provided my opinion on that based on what the Church has taught on the subject. The only logical answer is that had no authority due to invalid election or heresy. Nothing else makes sense. Saying that parts of the canonization process are not infallible is a complete novelty and not found in any Catholic book - this goes along the same lines as those in the SSPX who say Vatican II, a General Council, was not infallible (when General Councils always are infallible, no exceptions).

First off, as we discussed before a "General Council" is not infallible. This is not a theological term, but a medieval term which applied to Ecumenical Councils, Provincial Councils, National Councils, Plenary Councils, Metropolitan synods, etc. Among those only an Ecumenical Council can be infallible, but even there the infallibility of it is limited and specific.
 
Here is another source that says the Church only canonizes and beatifies those with heroic virtue. There is no further reason to challenge this.

Catholic Encyclopedia, Beatification and canonization:
"The Catholic Church canonizes or beatifies only those whose lives have been marked by the exercise of heroic virtue, and only after this has been proved by common repute for sanctity and by conclusive arguments...."

As for Councils, the terms "Ecumenical Council" and "General Council" are often used interchangeably. Regardless of the term used, the Catholic Church has always declared them infallible without question since this is promised in Scripture. All Catholic books say it and the First Vatican Council confirmed it when it stated:

"All those things are to be believed by divine and Catholic faith which are contained in the written Word of God or in Tradition, and which are proposed by the Church, either in solemn
judgment or in its ordinary and universal teaching office, as divinely revealed truths which must be believed."
 
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Messages In This Thread
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-10-2018, 06:18 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-11-2018, 01:25 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-11-2018, 01:26 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-14-2018, 05:07 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-15-2018, 02:59 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-12-2018, 08:42 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-13-2018, 12:11 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-29-2018, 10:25 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-30-2018, 01:11 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-30-2018, 02:19 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-30-2018, 09:02 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-30-2018, 02:16 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-31-2018, 01:10 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by pabbie - 05-31-2018, 06:01 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-01-2018, 09:52 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-02-2018, 08:11 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-03-2018, 02:56 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-12-2018, 03:54 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-12-2018, 05:17 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 10:08 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:14 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 11:04 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-15-2018, 12:16 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-18-2018, 03:46 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-18-2018, 05:25 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-15-2018, 12:14 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:21 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:39 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:35 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:42 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 03:01 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 04:54 PM



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