Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes
(06-09-2018, 01:24 AM)pabbie Wrote: As for John XXII, the Church doesn't consider him a heretic because he didn't pertinaciously hold to any heresy. This can't be compared to what we are talking about which is a Pope giving his solemn approval to a heresy in a General Council.

You might want to learn some history before you claim such things.

From that article, by a professional and well-lettered and highly-respected traditional Catholic historian :

Quote:John XXII, though, entered into conflict with Church Tradition on a point of primary importance. In three sermons he gave in the Cathedral of Avignon between November 1st 1331 and January 5th 1332, he sustained the view that the souls of the just, even after their perfect purification in Purgatory, did not enjoy the Beatific Vision of God. Only after the resurrection of the flesh and the general judgment would they be raised by God to the vision of the Divinity. Placed “under the altar” (Apoc. 6,9) the souls of the saints would be consoled and protected by the Humanity of Christ, but the Beatific Vision would be deferred until the resurrection of their bodies and the general judgment (Marc Dykmans in Les sermons de Jean XXII sur la vision beatifique, Gregorian University, Rome 1973, published the entire texts of the sermons pronounced by John XXII; cfr: also Christian Trottman, La vision béatifique. Des disputes scolastiques à sa définition par Benoit XII, Ecole Française de Rome, Rome 1995, pp. 417-739).  

The error according to which the Beatific Vision of the Divinity would be conceded to souls not after the first judgment, but only after the resurrection of the flesh was an old one, but in the XIII century it had been rebutted by St. Thomas Aquinas, primarily in De veritate (q. 8, a. 1) and in the Summa Theologica ( I, q. 12, a. 1). When John XXII re-proposed this error, he was openly criticized by many theologians. Among those that intervened in the debate, were Guillaume Durand de Saint Pourcain, Bishop of Meaux (1270-1334), who accused the Pope of re-proposing the Catharist heresies, the English Dominican Thomas Waleys (1318-1349), who, as a result of his public resistance underwent trial and imprisonment, the Franciscan Nicola da Lira (1270 -1349) and Cardinal Jacques Fournier (1280-1342), pontifical theologian and author of the treatise De statu animarum ante generale iudicium.

When the Pope tried to impose this erroneous doctrine on the Faculty of Theology in Paris, the King of France, Philip VI of Valois, prohibited its teaching, and, according to accounts by the Sorbonne’s Chancellor, Jean Gerson [even] reached the point of threatening John XXII with the stake if he didn’t make a retraction.  John XXII’s sermons totus mundum christianum turbaverunt, so said  Thomas of Strasburg, Master of the Hermits of Saint Augustine (in Dykmans,  op. cit., p. 10).

On the eve of John XXII’s death, he stated that he had expressed himself simply as a private theologian, without any binding to the magisterium he held. Giovanni Villani reports in his Chronicle, the retraction the Pope made on his thesis on December 3rd 1334, the day before his death, at the solicitation of Cardinal Dal Poggetto, his nephew, and some other relatives.

On December 20th 1334, Cardinal Fournier was elected Pope, taking the name of Benedict XII (1335-1342). The new Pontiff wanted to close the issue with a dogmatic definition, the constitution, Benedictus Deus of January 29th 1336, where he expresses thus: “We, with apostolic authority, define the following: According to the general disposition of God, the souls of all the saints […] already before they take up their bodies again and before the general judgment, have been, are and will be with Christ in heaven […] and these souls have seen and see the divine essence with an intuitive vision and even face to face, without the mediation of any creature.” (Denz-H, n. 1000 ). It was an article of faith referred to again on July 6th 1439, by the Bull, Laetentur coeli at the Council of Florence (Denz-H, n. 1305).

Following these doctrinal decisions, the thesis sustained by John XXII must be considered formally heretical, even if at that time the Pope sustained that it was still not defined as dogma of faith. St. Robert Bellarmine who dealt amply with this issue in De Romano Pontifice (Opera omnia, Venetiis 1599, Book. IV, chap. 14, coll. 841-844) writes that John XXII supported a heretical thesis, with the intention of imposing it as the truth on the faithful, but died before he could have defined the dogma, without therefore, undermining the principle of pontifical infallibility by his behavior.

The heterodox teaching of John XXII was certainly an act of ordinary magisterium regarding the faith of the Church, but not infallible, as it was devoid of a defining nature.
So, the Pope proposed not once, but publicly three times an heretical doctrine, which was roundly criticized by theologians as a repackaging of a condemned heresy. He the tried to impose his error on theologians, which reacted to the point that the King of France even threatened the Pope with arrest and execution for heresy!

Eventually on his death bed he decided to declare he was not trying to solemnly impose the error, and retracted it. His successor solemnly defined that John XXII had preached heresy. Yet never has anyone considered that John XXII lost the papacy for manifest heresy (creating a pretty high bar for judging a Pope of heresy after him).

St. Robert Bellarmine in the very treatise that Sedevacantist hang their hat upon, says that John XXII did support a formal heresy, was warned, and yet did not lose the Papacy because he did not attempt to solemnly impose heresy on the Church.

The case of John XXII, detailed by St. Robert Bellarmine, historically and theologically undermines the Sedevacantist theory.
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RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-10-2018, 06:18 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-11-2018, 01:25 AM
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RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by MagisterMusicae - 06-10-2018, 10:13 PM
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