Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes
(06-10-2018, 10:20 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(06-09-2018, 08:00 PM)pabbie Wrote:
(06-09-2018, 04:18 AM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(06-09-2018, 02:44 AM)Dominicus Wrote: Goodness, this thread is still going!? I mean the op was already banned for general trollishness, seems like this would have died off by now.

Some people never seem to give up, even when they're in deep water, completely out of their depth. :LOL:! I told pabble back in post #71 that he was in over his head. Your post is #103.
 
I've supported everything I have said with approved Church references. Rather, it's the opposite view that's not holding any water...

Paddie,

Here's the fundamental problem with our discussion : you are blindly entrenched in your position despite obvious contradiction.

You insist on holding a myopic position which the facts prove is so over-simplified as to be false. You refuse to deal with that evidence. In short, your burying your head in the sand and yet have the gall to suggest (though absolutely no one here has posted in support of your argument) that it's your opponent's view that is "not holding any water".

How red-tinted are those glasses?

Despite that you have been presented in this thread and others with obvious contradictory historical evidence, plus obviously contradictory statements from the Magisterium (including councils and Pope) and from theologians, you still continue to cling to a single quote which you are manifestly misinterpreting in the face of such evidence and then over-generalize without citation to make your case.

Let's be clear that we are both coming from a biased standpoint and certainly want our own position to be the correct one. The problem is that you have been presented with a dozen quotations which you dismiss as me "quoting when it supports my position" as if I am misinterpreting. A dozen quotes agree, and yet I'm the one selectively quoting?


Unless you're interested in actually correcting your misinterpretation in the face of such things, there's no point in wasting my time or yours.
 
 You just suggested I "learn some history" and then you reference a write up from 2015? This quote, already given, from the Fathers at the First Vatican Council confirms there has never been a heretical Pope as of 1870. The Church considers John XXII a VALID Pope, which means he could NOT have been considered a heretic at the same time. You really need to look at where you are getting your history from!
 
 "The question was also raised (at the First Vatican Council) by a Cardinal, “What is to be done with the Pope if he becomes a heretic?” It was answered that there has never been such a case; the Council of Bishops could depose him for heresy, for from the moment he becomes a heretic he is not the head or even a member of the Church...."
 
 You claim St. Robert undermined the sedevacantist theory, yet this quote from him actually confirms it:
 "...a pope who is a manifest heretic by that fact ceases to be pope and head, just as he by that fact ceases to be a Christian and a member of the body of the Church; wherefore he can be judged and punished by the Church. This is the judgement of all the early fathers, who teach that manifest heretics immediately lose all jurisdiction." St. Robert Bellarmine, "On the Roman Pontiff"
 
 You claim that I am in error on this subject, yet throughout the entire discussion you have repeatedly shown a misunderstanding of the fundamentals of Catholicism:
 
  •  You have stated that a true Ecumenical Council can teach error which goes against all past teaching of the Church
  •  You disregarded multiple quotes from trusted Catholic sources which confirm a Pope that teaches explicit heresy automatically loses his office, and afterward the Church makes a judgment
  •  If you look up the definition of "magisterium", you'll see that it is defined as INFALLIBLE. Yet you just made reference to "contradictory statements from the magisterium" as if the magisterium can contradict itself
  •  You have disregarded teaching from the ordinary magisterium by calling it "not infallible" showing you don't even understand what the ordinary magisterium is
  •  You have openly disregarded imprimaturs as worthless when the Church has always valued them and made them mandatory
  •  You have tried to argue that a pope teaching heresy needs to be warned (by his subordinates) before he loses his office. I have disproven that argument
 
 I'm not trying to insult you, but you've been mistaken on several very key subjects, and this has led to repeated inconsistent replies from you.
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Messages In This Thread
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-10-2018, 06:18 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-11-2018, 01:25 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-11-2018, 01:26 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-14-2018, 05:07 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-15-2018, 02:59 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-12-2018, 08:42 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-13-2018, 12:11 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-29-2018, 10:25 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-30-2018, 01:11 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-30-2018, 02:19 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-30-2018, 09:02 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-30-2018, 02:16 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-31-2018, 01:10 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-01-2018, 09:52 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-02-2018, 08:11 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-03-2018, 02:56 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by pabbie - 06-11-2018, 10:43 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-12-2018, 03:54 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-12-2018, 05:17 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 10:08 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:14 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 11:04 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-15-2018, 12:16 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-18-2018, 03:46 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-18-2018, 05:25 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-15-2018, 12:14 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:21 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:39 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:35 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:42 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 03:01 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 04:54 PM



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