Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes
(06-15-2018, 12:14 PM)Paul Wrote:
(06-15-2018, 12:02 PM)pabbie Wrote: Let's not play games here. We all know well that the decrees on ecumenism and religious freedom opened the floodgates for acceptance of other religions, which led to the Assisi meetings over the last 4 decades.

As was intended by the drafters of those documents, in the 'spirit' of Vatican II. But that's different from the actual language of the documents themselves, which can be interpreted in an orthodox manner, even if the most obvious meaning is heretical.

Something like Nostra ætate's "The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems" could mean the Church approves of Islam. Or it could mean that the Church recognises that Muslims are human beings created in the image and likeness of God, and holds them in the same esteem she holds all people - implying that they need to convert and become Catholic. Even if many among the current clergy choose the first interpretation - plenty of bishops were Arian, too.

And Pope Francis is not entirely wrong about freedom of religion. It's always been immoral to force someone to be Catholic. The Church has the right to coerce those who are baptised, including heretics, but doing so these days would do far more harm than good. Besides, Pope Francis's remarks in a newspaper, even the Vatican newspaper, aren't binding the faithful to anything, so infallibility isn't being invoked.
 
You have a very, very serious case of denial going on here.

No one can possibly use the excuse that the Vatican II documents can be interpreted "this way or that way". It is plainly obvious how the local dioceses have interpreted the Vatican II documents. Plenty of examples can be given. A friend of mine asked his pastor how he should approach converting his Jewish friend, and his pastor replied, "leave him alone, he is fine where he is". A family member of mine went to a Novus ordo funeral and the priest announced to everyone present, "we all go to heaven". Pope Francis has made multiple public statements, now posted on the Vatican website, that we should not try to convert people like atheists and the Orthodox. Then we have the Assisi meetings. It is VERY clear how the Novus ordo have interpreted the Vatican II documents, so don't even bother trying to use the argument that it depends how you interpret them! Everyone has shown they know exactly what they mean and none of the hierarchy are putting a stop to it.

It has ALWAYS been the case throughout the 20 centuries of the Catholic Church that it would be wrong to force someone to be Catholic. But that never stopped the missionaries from trying to convert people! Nothing has changed in that regard, so to suddenly start preaching that conversion is no longer needed and can even be sinful is nothing but heresy.

All of Pope Francis' controversial statements have now been posted on the Vatican website, which is the main source that the Vatican uses to teach all the faithful of the world. The Vatican has assumed ownership of the statements by doing so. It is IMPOSSIBLE for the true Church of Christ to teach all the faithful of the world heresies like it is currently doing. That is not the Catholic Church but an imposter church.

And for the 100th time, the Church is not required to "invoke infallibility" for the faithful to believe something. Many past popes have confirmed this, so please spare us from that embarrassing argument.
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Messages In This Thread
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-10-2018, 06:18 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-11-2018, 01:25 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-11-2018, 01:26 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-14-2018, 05:07 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-15-2018, 02:59 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-12-2018, 08:42 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-13-2018, 12:11 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-29-2018, 10:25 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-30-2018, 01:11 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-30-2018, 02:19 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-30-2018, 09:02 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-30-2018, 02:16 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-31-2018, 01:10 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-01-2018, 09:52 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-02-2018, 08:11 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-03-2018, 02:56 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-12-2018, 03:54 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-12-2018, 05:17 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 10:08 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:14 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 11:04 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-15-2018, 12:16 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-18-2018, 03:46 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-18-2018, 05:25 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-15-2018, 12:14 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by pabbie - 06-15-2018, 01:25 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:21 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:39 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:35 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:42 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 03:01 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 04:54 PM



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