Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes
(06-17-2018, 11:58 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(06-17-2018, 11:33 AM)pabbie Wrote:
(06-16-2018, 09:39 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(06-15-2018, 01:33 PM)pabbie Wrote: Kneeling at Mass is a rubric! It does not pertain to faith and morals.

Who says?

What if I were to say that I thought it does touch on Faith and Morals since it concerns the Mass and this is the primary act of our worship, thus our Faith.

Were I to say that I could then assert this is a binding, and infallible decree of a General Council. Thus the fact that the Latin Church kneels at Mass constitutes heresy and the Pope that allowed such undermining of the Faith must clearly not have been Popes (including the one that called Vatican I, thus in fact those "Fathers of Vatican I" you keep quoting are actually not Catholics).

Pabbie, you're playing the Protestant here. You're picking and choosing what you have decided "pertains to faith and morals" -- this does, but this is just a "rubric".

But a liberal could claim the exact same thing.

Unless we have a clear arbiter, namely the Church, who decides what belongs to faith and morals, and what constitutes a harm to such faith and morals, we're left in Protestantville, deciding what the Faith is on our own, based on our on evaluation. That's not a Catholic attitude. Full stop.
 
You are mistaken. See my other reply just now. When to kneel at Mass is not found in Scripture, so it is not considered part of Divine Law. That's why the Church has created Ecclesiastical Laws regarding it. Whatever Ecclesiastical Law is in effect at the current moment is what is binding on all.

So why cannot the Church then change something like "religious liberty"? (BTW, I don't think the can, but you are making the argument here).

You would of course say "because it is about faith and morals", but who gets to judge that? If it is just you or I, then it's just a from of Protestantism that you're professing. If you say "the Church" then there is no reason to assert that a Pope's alleged heresy does not need also to be identified officially by the Church for there to be any canonical effects.

Pabbie, you've backed yourself into a corner here. Either you judge what is "of faith and morals" or the Church does. If the former, then it's not a Catholic notion, if the latter, then it undermines the Sedevacatist argument you've presented.

I'll let you choose which you want, retort or clarify.
 
It is actually you backing yourself into a corner here. The following quotes from Scripture condemn religious liberty because they condemn any religion that is non-Catholic. Scripture is DIVINE LAW and cannot be changed:
  • "And he said to them: Go ye into the whole world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned." Mark 16:15-16
  • "If any man come to you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into the house nor say to him, God speed you. For he that saith unto him, God speed you, communicateth with his wicked works." 2 John 1:10-11
  • "But he that shall deny me before men, I will also deny him before my Father who is in heaven." Mat 10:33
 
So for Pope to say it is okay to be part of other religions when our Lord clearly stated non-Catholics are condemned, its manifest heresy without a single doubt.
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Messages In This Thread
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-10-2018, 06:18 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-11-2018, 01:25 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-11-2018, 01:26 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-14-2018, 05:07 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-15-2018, 02:59 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-12-2018, 08:42 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-13-2018, 12:11 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-29-2018, 10:25 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-30-2018, 01:11 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-30-2018, 02:19 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-30-2018, 09:02 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-30-2018, 02:16 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 05-31-2018, 01:10 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-01-2018, 09:52 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-02-2018, 08:11 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-03-2018, 02:56 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-12-2018, 03:54 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-12-2018, 05:17 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 10:08 AM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:14 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 11:04 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-15-2018, 12:16 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by pabbie - 06-18-2018, 02:29 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-18-2018, 03:46 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-18-2018, 05:25 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-15-2018, 12:14 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:21 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:39 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:35 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 02:42 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 03:01 PM
RE: Vatican canonizes un-Catholic popes - by Paul - 06-14-2018, 04:54 PM



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