Universal life church
#11
Receiving an "ordination" in another church constitutes an act of schism for which the code of canon law has a very clear punishment;

Can. 1364 §1. Without prejudice to the prescript of can. 194, §1, n. 2, an apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication; in addition, a cleric can be punished with the penalties mentioned in can. 1336, §1, nn. 1, 2, and 3.


http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P52.HTM
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#12
(05-27-2018, 12:05 AM)Poche Wrote: Receiving an "ordination" in another church constitutes an act of schism for which the code of canon law has a very clear punishment;

Can. 1364 §1. Without prejudice to the prescript of can. 194, §1, n. 2, an apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication; in addition, a cleric can be punished with the penalties mentioned in can. 1336, §1, nn. 1, 2, and 3.


http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P52.HTM

The difficulty here is the extent to which the man realized what he was doing was objectively a grave sin with such a punishment.

Quote:Can. 1324 §1. The perpetrator of a violation is not exempt from a penalty, but the penalty established by law or precept must be tempered or a penance employed in its place if the delict was committed:
...
9/ by a person who without negligence did not know that a penalty was attached to a law or precept;
10/ by a person who acted without full imputability provided that the imputability was grave.
...
§3. In the circumstances mentioned in §1, the accused is not bound by a latae sententiae penalty.

So if the poor man was really just doing this as a joke and did not know that his action constituted a objectively grave sin, then he would not be excommunicated latæ sententiæ. Still, there is probably grave negligence even though no. 9 & 10 above apply. The precise degree of culpability and subjective gravity needs to be determined by a confessor, not us.

But yes, objectively, it is a grave sin, and one which carried with it an automatic excommunication.

The question will be was he really intending on apostasizing? If not, then whatever sin is there there's no excommunication, just stupidity.
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#13
(05-27-2018, 03:50 AM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(05-27-2018, 12:05 AM)Poche Wrote: Receiving an "ordination" in another church constitutes an act of schism for which the code of canon law has a very clear punishment;

Can. 1364 §1. Without prejudice to the prescript of can. 194, §1, n. 2, an apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication; in addition, a cleric can be punished with the penalties mentioned in can. 1336, §1, nn. 1, 2, and 3.


http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P52.HTM

The difficulty here is the extent to which the man realized what he was doing was objectively a grave sin with such a punishment.

Quote:Can. 1324 §1. The perpetrator of a violation is not exempt from a penalty, but the penalty established by law or precept must be tempered or a penance employed in its place if the delict was committed:
...
9/ by a person who without negligence did not know that a penalty was attached to a law or precept;
10/ by a person who acted without full imputability provided that the imputability was grave.
...
§3. In the circumstances mentioned in §1, the accused is not bound by a latae sententiae penalty.

So if the poor man was really just doing this as a joke and did not know that his action constituted a objectively grave sin, then he would not be excommunicated latæ sententiæ. Still, there is probably grave negligence even though no. 9 & 10 above apply. The precise degree of culpability and subjective gravity needs to be determined by a confessor, not us.

But yes, objectively, it is a grave sin, and one which carried with it an automatic excommunication.

The question will be was he really intending on apostasizing? If not, then whatever sin is there there's no excommunication, just stupidity.

Which is  why this person needs to go to confession.
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#14
(05-28-2018, 12:36 AM)Poche Wrote: Which is  why this person needs to go to confession.

I won't post a link (lest people be tempted), but there was a few years ago a non-Catholic phone service that allowed total strangers to call the hotline and confess to a randomly assigned total stranger.

If we're going the route of online ordination certificates, then perhaps the friend would be interested in this kind of confession, since it does just as much as that sheet of paper from the ULC : nothing (except dig the hole one must climb out of deeper).
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#15
(05-28-2018, 12:42 AM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: If we're going the route of online ordination certificates, then perhaps the friend would be interested in this kind of confession, since it does just as much as that sheet of paper from the ULC : nothing (except dig the hole one must climb out of deeper).

Although the sheet of paper from the ULC does do something: it allows one to perform marriages recognised by the state. If that's one's intent, it wouldn't be apostasy - you're not really intending ordination, essentially buying a permit to do marriages - although holding oneself out as a 'minister' of this fake church could cause scandal.
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#16
(05-28-2018, 12:42 AM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(05-28-2018, 12:36 AM)Poche Wrote: Which is  why this person needs to go to confession.

I won't post a link (lest people be tempted), but there was a few years ago a non-Catholic phone service that allowed total strangers to call the hotline and confess to a randomly assigned total stranger.

If we're going the route of online ordination certificates, then perhaps the friend would be interested in this kind of confession, since it does just as much as that sheet of paper from the ULC : nothing (except dig the hole one must climb out of deeper).

It would not be a sacramental confession. This person needs to go to a real priest and make a good confession. There may be circumstances that might mitigate the seriousness of an offense that carries with it a latae sentensiae excommunication but it is still grave matter that needs to be confessed.
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#17
(05-28-2018, 03:34 AM)Poche Wrote:
(05-28-2018, 12:42 AM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(05-28-2018, 12:36 AM)Poche Wrote: Which is  why this person needs to go to confession.

I won't post a link (lest people be tempted), but there was a few years ago a non-Catholic phone service that allowed total strangers to call the hotline and confess to a randomly assigned total stranger.

If we're going the route of online ordination certificates, then perhaps the friend would be interested in this kind of confession, since it does just as much as that sheet of paper from the ULC : nothing (except dig the hole one must climb out of deeper).

It would not be a sacramental confession. This person needs to go to a real priest and make a good confession. There may be circumstances that might mitigate the seriousness of an offense that carries with it a latae sentensiae excommunication but it is still grave matter that needs to be confessed.

Poche : Sarcasm.
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#18
(05-28-2018, 03:18 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(05-28-2018, 03:34 AM)Poche Wrote:
(05-28-2018, 12:42 AM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(05-28-2018, 12:36 AM)Poche Wrote: Which is  why this person needs to go to confession.

I won't post a link (lest people be tempted), but there was a few years ago a non-Catholic phone service that allowed total strangers to call the hotline and confess to a randomly assigned total stranger.

If we're going the route of online ordination certificates, then perhaps the friend would be interested in this kind of confession, since it does just as much as that sheet of paper from the ULC : nothing (except dig the hole one must climb out of deeper).

It would not be a sacramental confession. This person needs to go to a real priest and make a good confession. There may be circumstances that might mitigate the seriousness of an offense that carries with it a latae sentensiae excommunication but it is still grave matter that needs to be confessed.

Poche : Sarcasm.

some people may think it is funny or cute. but when/if  this person wakes up in Hell he won't be laughing.
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#19
(05-29-2018, 12:29 AM)Poche Wrote: some people may think it is funny or cute. but when/if  this person wakes up in Hell he won't  be laughing.

Tough crowd this week ... :s
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