Do the laity have right's to the priests house?
#11
(06-10-2018, 10:24 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(06-09-2018, 12:38 PM)GRA Wrote: Simply no. The concept of property rights says no. Replace priest with any number of professions and the answer is no.

You mean I can't break into my doctor's house to give him some remedial courses in how to practice medicine?

Pretty much.
Unfortunately I don't have any "fun facts" about me unless being a practicing Catholic counts.

Trying to get better every day week.
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#12
(06-10-2018, 10:24 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(06-09-2018, 12:38 PM)GRA Wrote: Simply no. The concept of property rights says no. Replace priest with any number of professions and the answer is no.

You mean I can't break into my doctor's house to give him some remedial courses in how to practice medicine?

Courses in medicine?  Not needed.  Just say that you "self-identify" as a doctor.  Then claim squatter's rights and throw a kegger.
-sent by howitzer via the breech.

God's love is manifest in the landscape as in a face.  - John Muir

I want creation to penetrate you with so much admiration that wherever you go, the least plant may bring you clear remembrance of the Creator.  A single plant, a blade of grass, or one speck of dust is sufficient to occupy all your intelligence in beholding the art with which it has been made  - Saint Basil

Heaven is under our feet, as well as over our heads. - Thoreau, Walden
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#13
(06-11-2018, 01:35 PM)Jeeter Wrote:
(06-10-2018, 10:24 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(06-09-2018, 12:38 PM)GRA Wrote: Simply no. The concept of property rights says no. Replace priest with any number of professions and the answer is no.

You mean I can't break into my doctor's house to give him some remedial courses in how to practice medicine?

Courses in medicine?  Not needed.  Just say that you "self-identify" as a doctor.  Then claim squatter's rights and throw a kegger.

You know, beer does help reduce the risk of kidney stones, diabetes and stroke, and even can increase HDL (the good cholesterol).

Smoking, too, has health benefits ...

Cures "they" don't want you to know about, of course.
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#14
(06-11-2018, 03:45 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(06-11-2018, 01:35 PM)Jeeter Wrote:
(06-10-2018, 10:24 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(06-09-2018, 12:38 PM)GRA Wrote: Simply no. The concept of property rights says no. Replace priest with any number of professions and the answer is no.

You mean I can't break into my doctor's house to give him some remedial courses in how to practice medicine?

Courses in medicine?  Not needed.  Just say that you "self-identify" as a doctor.  Then claim squatter's rights and throw a kegger.

You know, beer does help reduce the risk of kidney stones, diabetes and stroke, and even can increase HDL (the good cholesterol).

Smoking, too, has health benefits ...

Cures "they" don't want you to know about, of course.

Please, do go own...
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#15
(06-11-2018, 05:58 PM)Justin Alphonsus Wrote: Please, do go own...

Seriously, I'm not making this up!  :D

[Image: 708612_n.jpg]


Where e'er the Catholic sun doth shine,
There's music and laughter and good red wine. pints quite fine.
At least I've always found it so.
Benedicamus Domino!
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#16
(06-11-2018, 03:45 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(06-11-2018, 01:35 PM)Jeeter Wrote:
(06-10-2018, 10:24 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(06-09-2018, 12:38 PM)GRA Wrote: Simply no. The concept of property rights says no. Replace priest with any number of professions and the answer is no.

You mean I can't break into my doctor's house to give him some remedial courses in how to practice medicine?

Courses in medicine?  Not needed.  Just say that you "self-identify" as a doctor.  Then claim squatter's rights and throw a kegger.

You know, beer does help reduce the risk of kidney stones, diabetes and stroke, and even can increase HDL (the good cholesterol).

Smoking, too, has health benefits ...

Cures "they" don't want you to know about, of course.

I rmember when my doctor used to have ash trays in his waiting room.
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#17
(06-11-2018, 09:28 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(06-11-2018, 05:58 PM)Justin Alphonsus Wrote: Please, do go own...

Seriously, I'm not making this up!  :D

[Image: 708612_n.jpg]


Where e'er the Catholic sun doth shine,
There's music and laughter and good red wine. pints quite fine.
At least I've always found it so.
Benedicamus Domino!

Useless yet interesting trivia, Milwaukee Water Works' first customer was a brewery.

http://city.milwaukee.gov/water/customer...-Works.htm

Also, I though it was named "Schlitz" for the sound it makes exiting one's body.
-sent by howitzer via the breech.

God's love is manifest in the landscape as in a face.  - John Muir

I want creation to penetrate you with so much admiration that wherever you go, the least plant may bring you clear remembrance of the Creator.  A single plant, a blade of grass, or one speck of dust is sufficient to occupy all your intelligence in beholding the art with which it has been made  - Saint Basil

Heaven is under our feet, as well as over our heads. - Thoreau, Walden
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#18
Back to the general topic at hand, because I think there are some important principles here:

1.  Some other posters already explained the attitude one must have as a layman:

a.  We are not on an equal level with a priest even outside his rectory, even outside the parish grounds or outside any church.  In a restaurant we are not on an equal level.  This is in regard to authority (he has the authority to command and demand; we do not) and in regard to state in life (the priesthood being a higher state than the lay state).

b.  A rectory is his private abode, even if technically owned by the diocese or his Order or Apostolate (if he belongs to one of those).  Even standing inside the door of a rectory is his privilege to allow or deny.

On both counts, it should be obvious why 

(a) we do not "correct" priests.  We may question them, politely; we may ask for a private meeting with them to get clarification on a remark of theirs or a policy/behavior of theirs, but in general we are not in a position to question every little thing they do or say.  Something he does or says that we would regard as grounds for an actual objection would have to be something pretty serious to warrant an urgent meeting with him.

(b) we have no rights of use in the rectory --his abode-- even if by custom a parish group has habitually had permission to use part of the rectory for a specific need, and regularly.

2.  All the above is true even if he is a very spiritually and morally fallen man, and if that fact is very evident -- such as, he is rarely charitable, often angry/explosive, and in general does not seem to be virtuous.  A priest's status and rights are not modified or reduced by the level of his sanctity.  A very holy layperson remains a layperson; a very unholy priest remains a priest.

3.  We have a situation in our trad parish where an ethnic component of the parish is "used to" regarding the rectory (apparently in their own culture, not North American culture) as theirs to share at their whim.  They take great liberties with continually coming to the door, not asking if they can use the rectory, but simply walking in when the priest opens the door, proceeding to one of the rooms, and holding some private meeting.  (I have been there often when they have done that.) I know for a fact that they have been given no official permission to do that, because the priest has gently confided in some of us that this is habit of theirs, and they have not been invited to use the rectory, including for religious reasons.  He has been tolerant of their rudeness because they seem too culturally bound to be able to understand that they are in a different culture, with different expectations, but many of us are offended by their presumption, given that the same tolerance would not be extended to us.

4.  At a non-trad parish a long time ago I had a situation where I was in a choir which had no place to practice, yet the priest expected us to rehearse for Mass.  The choir director and some of the members came from quite a distance, and of course we were singing for free, so we had no money to rent a space to practice.  The pastor at the time was pretty generous and invited us to use the dining room for practice, so we did but were very respectful of the space and expressed gratitude to the priest.  His assistant pastor, though, apparently deeply resented our use of the space and complained both to the pastor and to us, very inappropriately.  He, the assistant, was very rude and once or twice ordered us peremptorily out of the rectory.  Therefore -- still with no place inside a building to rehearse -- we sang outside.  Then he had the nerve later on to complain to us that he had been able to hear us softly practicing during his Mass.  (Um, your decision, Father.)  

This is an example of a priest without an advanced spirituality, or even common sense.  The lines of authority were between the pastor and the assistant pastor.  It was completely unjust, not to mention uncharitable, for him to invalidate his superior's permission to us to use the rectory.  He also had not much control over his passions (anger, for instance); I know lay people with much more self-control than that.  

However, I mention this to underline two facts:  (1) even when a priest is acting unjustly -- such as invalidating his own superior's permission granted to laity -- we do not have permission to criticize him directly, or to overrule him.  (2) when a priest behaves like a jerk and shows no manners and even scandalizes by his conduct, the hierarchy of authority remains; he does not lose his standing even when lay people are better behaved than he is.  (We had to approach the pastor himself, again, and explain our predicament; he revealed that he and the assistant did not see eye-to-eye on this matter -- and, he implied gently, on other matters, and their disagreements must have been great enough; almost immediately after these incidents the assistant pastor was transferred abruptly.  Their relationship also seems to have been marked by some envy, which is not uncommon between priests.)

I will tell you that I was really turned off by this assistant pastor; the incidents were very much eye-openers and were not the first occasions when I saw priests behave badly personally even though they were good or great homilests.  I can say with confidence that my trad priest is quite the opposite:  almost 100% of the time his behavior off the pulpit and sanctuary corresponds to his words in church.  We are one lucky congregation.
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#19
This is a magnificent troll thread.
Surréxit Dóminus vere, Alleluia!
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#20
(06-12-2018, 03:50 PM)Dominicus Wrote: This is a magnificent troll thread.

In the spirit of pride month, the proper terminology is “This troll thread is juth fabulouth!”


Couldn’t resist.
-sent by howitzer via the breech.

God's love is manifest in the landscape as in a face.  - John Muir

I want creation to penetrate you with so much admiration that wherever you go, the least plant may bring you clear remembrance of the Creator.  A single plant, a blade of grass, or one speck of dust is sufficient to occupy all your intelligence in beholding the art with which it has been made  - Saint Basil

Heaven is under our feet, as well as over our heads. - Thoreau, Walden
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