Cannabis Act Legal in Ontario
#21
(06-20-2018, 05:25 PM)Cecilia9 Wrote: You may have a higher resistance to the consequences and you have been very lucky. Again, you are an exception, but you have harmed your brain even if  you are not going to the 'loony bin'. Iwould respectfully caution you against spreading the dangerous belief that it is harmless and do some research. There are impressionable people who read this forum but are not members and saying that can have consequences that we will never know about.

I would also encourage you to stop using. Why do you need it? Why don't you pray instead to focus your mind?
I am NOT suggesting that anyone start smoking pot.  I am only offering my perspective as a pot smoker since that was sort of the theme of the thread. Research? Ive done plenty and it's not really cut and dry either way. 

I pray always,ive always been a man that prays. Its been part of my life since i was a youth. Marijuana never changed that.
Walk before God in simplicity, and not in subtleties of the mind. Simplicity brings faith; but subtle and intricate speculations bring conceit; and conceit brings withdrawal from God. -Saint Isaac of Syria, Directions on Spiritual Training


"It is impossible in human terms to exaggerate the importance of being in a church or chapel before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. I very seldom repeat what I say. Let me repeat this sentence. It is impossible in human language to exaggerate the importance of being in a chapel or church before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. That sentence is the talisman of the highest sanctity. "Father John Hardon
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#22
(06-20-2018, 05:35 PM)Cecilia9 Wrote: It just baffles me how traditional Catholics can be okay with this. This will affect society as a whole.

No, they weren't high on pot at the time but they were long history users and that affects things. Prostitution is one thing and cannabis is another as I'm sure you know. One is affecting the mental health of a nation and one is a mortal sin to be engaged in from time to time. Thomas Aquinas said that to protect virgins from being raped and moral women from being debauched.

People will murder without the law too. Does that mean that we legalize it? Come on now, why do we have laws? That's silly reasoning. Do you want a bunch of teenagers to be told by the government that it's a-okay? I will let you comfort their grieving families. I'm sorry to be so harsh about this but it's such an important topic.

I've seen so many people destroyed by this awful evil thing that I can't see how anyone can justify it. Parents who thought they could do it around their kids, daughters, sons etc. If you think it's okay, that's because the drug lobbies have invested so much in this think-tank for this to go through. Guess who is going to be rolling in money.
Peace.....you are right!  One just has to look at where we are today from all the bad decisions made in the past - now we are going to hell in a hand-basket.  This is another feather in "their" cap.  God bless, angeltime :heart:
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#23
Paul - no it will not destroy everyone's brain. It will damage it though in some way or another even if you don't believe it. What happens when you smoke pot, Paul? You get high. What does being high entail? I think you know the details.

What about this is morally harmless? There are many other things you can use for medicinal purposes that are not like this. Let's not use that argument because we both know it's bogus. There has been research done. Is it just because everyone in the new generation has done pot and feels the need to defend it? Why do I have to explain this? I'm just so shocked right now.
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#24
(06-20-2018, 05:28 PM)GRA Wrote: I personally don't see the "well it's about time" talk point. Since I don't smoke weed for rec pondering whether weed should be legalized just isn't my priority or a concern. Medicinal MJ I can understand being okayed. But let's face it: people who treat this like it's the 2nd Prohibition are delusional.

Not really, when the effects of drug prohibition are identical to alcohol prohibition: black markets with unsafe products and high prices, organised crime, and lots of violence. Maybe there isn't as much police corruption as there was during the 1920s (at least in the US), with police paid to look the other way, but there's at least the perception that they're stopping people for 'driving while black' in order to look for drugs. Especially when, if they find more than a tiny amount, they can claim you were planning on selling it and keep your car, and sell it to raise money for the police department.

And then there's the money spent on locking people up for drugs, with lengthy sentences for small amounts at huge cost to the taxpayers. That's money which isn't being used to pay teachers or fix the roads or help the poor. And when drugs are so expensive because of the black market, you get money for them by committing other crimes like breaking into houses and stealing their stuff. Nobody does that for cigarettes or alcohol - at most, people shoplift those (which is bad, but typically non-violent and stores expect a certain amount of loss to theft and factor it into their prices, which is spread out among everyone).

I think drugs should be legal not because I have any interest in using them, but because I think the costs of the War on Drugs far exceed the benefits, and it's largely yet another ineffective government programme that's cost the taxpayers way too much money for too little return. And the high cost of drugs due to prohibition funds the gangs in places like Colombia and Mexico, causing people to flee north, often illegally. It's far more than just 'yay, the cops can't bust me for getting high now'.
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#25
Signing out now, this is just too depressing. My husband would tell me not to get my blood pressure up lol. Thank you angeltime for agreeing with me :)
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#26
(06-20-2018, 05:43 PM)Cecilia9 Wrote: Paul - no it will not destroy everyone's brain. It will damage it though in some way or another even if you don't believe it. What happens when you smoke pot, Paul? You get high. What does being high entail? I think you know the details.

I wouldn't know, since I've never smoked pot and have no desire to. Not everyone supports legalisation for the sake of getting high - I just think it's absolutely insane to send someone to prison for years, at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars, because someone wanted to get high in his own home. Maybe teachers and police officers could get paid better if all that tax money wasn't going to lock people up.

(06-20-2018, 05:43 PM)Cecilia9 Wrote: What about this is morally harmless? There are many other things you can use for medicinal purposes that are not like this. Let's not use that argument because we both know it's bogus. There has been research done. Is it just because everyone in the new generation has done pot and feels the need to defend it?  Why do I have to explain this? I'm just so shocked right now.

Morally harmless? Never said marijuana or other drugs were. But the Church has never said that the state is morally bound to prohibit every sin. We know what the Church teaches about sex; should it be a crime to masturbate? How would the state even enforce that, even in a Catholic society where most people agree it's wrong (which we don't have), without a huge invasion of privacy? Would family members be snitching to the police on what Johnny's doing in his room, destroying any sort of trust? Doesn't make the actions right, but some things aren't a matter for the state.

Maybe you're right about how harmful marijuana is - that doesn't mean Catholics have to oppose toleration of it. Of course, that also doesn't mean Catholics must support legalisation - this is one of those issues that we're free to disagree on.
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#27
One thing i like to point out to folks is that marijuana can have some nasty mental effects if you take too much. Edibles are usually the worst culprits,because there is no way to titrate your dose;you must wait for 2 or 3 hours to kick in. With smoking or vaping you can control the dose because the effects are quick enough for you to know what you're getting into. Responsible users don't go out and act like the stereotypical "Cheech and Chong" or "Harold and Kumar" stoners who smoke themselves silly all the time and run around acting like idiots. 


Also,I have had some horrific experiences on weed over the years,id be lying if i were to say otherwise. Its not all harmless fun but it's not  "Reefer Madness" either.
Walk before God in simplicity, and not in subtleties of the mind. Simplicity brings faith; but subtle and intricate speculations bring conceit; and conceit brings withdrawal from God. -Saint Isaac of Syria, Directions on Spiritual Training


"It is impossible in human terms to exaggerate the importance of being in a church or chapel before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. I very seldom repeat what I say. Let me repeat this sentence. It is impossible in human language to exaggerate the importance of being in a chapel or church before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. That sentence is the talisman of the highest sanctity. "Father John Hardon
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#28
(06-20-2018, 05:35 PM)Cecilia9 Wrote: No, they weren't high on pot at the time but they were long history users and that affects things. Prostitution is one thing and cannabis is another as I'm sure you know. One is affecting the mental health of a nation and one is a mortal sin to be engaged in from time to time. Thomas Aquinas said that to protect virgins from being raped and moral women from being debauched.

Drug prohibition has costs, too, and smoking marijuana isn't a mortal sin for everyone, every time. Prostitution is, and I'd say it's worse because it's always mortal and, without repentance, sends souls to hell. If someone smokes without losing his ability to reason, it's not mortal, any more than a drink of alcohol is.

(06-20-2018, 05:35 PM)Cecilia9 Wrote: People will murder without the law too. Does that mean that we legalize it? Come on now, why do we have laws? That's silly reasoning. Do you want a bunch of teenagers to be told by the government that it's a-okay? I will let you comfort their grieving families. I'm sorry to be so harsh about this but it's such an important topic.

Murder's morally wrong - one of the top ten. Using drugs isn't itself immoral - there's no difference, morally, between taking a drink of alcohol to alter one's mind, taking a pill prescribed by a doctor to do so, or smoking a joint to do so. It's all about the quantity and the effects.

And what about the teenager who does smoke it, maybe in college, gets arrested for it, and then tries to get a job afterwards, having given it up, and is told 'sorry, we can't hire you because you have a criminal record'? He might as well start selling it if he's unemployable.

Maybe you've read - or experienced - stuff I haven't. But I've never heard of anyone overdosing on marijuana, or violent crimes being blamed on cannabis use. I suspect there's a lot more going on with someone who does such things, and the marijuana use is more of a symptom than a cause. But maybe I'm wrong.
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#29
(06-20-2018, 01:41 PM)angeltime Wrote: Pax et Bonum!  HI!    Canibus will now be legal in Ontario July 1st.  This might help everyone calm down and cope better over the many issues in our world and Church.  God bless, angeltime :heart:  *I know I spelled it wrong - that's how much I know about it!

Canibus July 1st

Many problems are not just the problem of the user.  The families, the children, the employers and co-workers, the customers, the people driving down the road...…  Ever been on the receiving end of someone who is stoned?  Ever seen a kid try to get Mommy or Daddy to pay attention?  And, no, I don't like drunks, either.
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I hate weed.  It pulls people away from the people who love them.  It makes them selfish, callous.  Smoking in the house or around the children makes the children, with developing brains, intoxicated, too.
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The people who go to jail for weed are not the people who smoke one joint on Friday night while sitting on their own back porch.  You are making money if you go to jail.  Maybe just a little money, but you are in the business.
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#30
Being friends with alot of people into weed (in vastly varying degrees) this has been a question that I often think about, and I wish I was more certain about it.

We can all agree that drunkenness, as in a serious impairment of man's use of reason, is sinful. But of course alcohol is not always used to that point. I find where to draw the line with weed much more obscure than with alcohol. The effects of weed can vary greatly between two people (even if taking the same strain and amount). Right now I'm of the opinion that its recreational use doesn't have place in the Christian life. But it's complicated. 

Do we apply the sin of drunkenness to getting stoned, or is it something else?

I would love to see more moral theology being done here, and more literature from the Church.
"If your heart comes to feel a natural hatred for sin, it has defeated the causes of sin and freed itself from them. Keep hell’s torments in mind; but know that your Helper is at hand. Do nothing that will grieve Him, but say to Him with tears: ‘Be merciful and deliver me, O Lord, for without Thy help I cannot escape from the hands of my enemies.’ Be attentive to your heart, and He will guard you from all evil."

- St. Isaias the Solitary

"Constant action overcomes cold; being still overcomes heat. Purity
and stillness give the correct law to all under heaven."

- Tao Te Ching 45
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