Debating Thomism--Jay Dyer vs Dr. Francis Feingold
#1
It's live right now.  Don't know what time it started.




Dr. Feingold is Assistant Professor Of Philosophy at St. Patrick's Seminary and University, with a specialty in medieval philosophy (esp. Aquinas), metaphysics (esp. philosophy of God), ethics (esp. moral psychology). Areas of competence: Ancient philosophy, modern philosophy, political philosophy, epistemology, and free will.   We will be debating whether the Thomistic and Roman Dogma of absolute divine simplicity is true.
Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist. 
The demons of the air together with the Antichrist will perform great wonders  
The Church will be in eclipse

-Our Lady of La Salette


Like Christ, His Bride the Church will undergo its own passion, burial, and resurrection.
-unknown traditional priest

Father Ripperger said that if we are detached from all things, aren't afraid to suffer, and we accept all suffering as the will of God for our sanctity, we have nothing to fear!
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#2
There's something about Jay Dyer that I do not like at all.

Also what's with Eastern Orthodox converts being so eccentric?
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#3
(07-09-2018, 02:57 PM)Some Guy Wrote: There's something about Jay Dyer that I do not like at all.

Also what's with Eastern Orthodox converts being so eccentric?

He's quite arrogant but interesting.

I've learned a lot from him, but I don't fully trust him.

This kind of debate is way over my head, but I thought some folks here might be interested.
Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist. 
The demons of the air together with the Antichrist will perform great wonders  
The Church will be in eclipse

-Our Lady of La Salette


Like Christ, His Bride the Church will undergo its own passion, burial, and resurrection.
-unknown traditional priest

Father Ripperger said that if we are detached from all things, aren't afraid to suffer, and we accept all suffering as the will of God for our sanctity, we have nothing to fear!
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#4
(07-09-2018, 03:00 PM)Sacred Heart lover Wrote:
(07-09-2018, 02:57 PM)Some Guy Wrote: There's something about Jay Dyer that I do not like at all.

Also what's with Eastern Orthodox converts being so eccentric?

He's quite arrogant but interesting.

I've learned a lot from him, but I don't fully trust him.

This kind of debate is way over my head, but I thought some folks here might be interested.

Although, I did challenge him on the three marriage thing in Orthodoxy and he hasn't been able to answer me.

He was making fun of "Muh keys" and a fan muttered about "Damn Key Rattlers".

The fan told me the divorce/marriage allowance was because of economy.

I said that "muh economy" sounds very similar to Moses making allowances because of the hardness of your hearts, which Jesus rectified. Sticking tongue out at you
Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist. 
The demons of the air together with the Antichrist will perform great wonders  
The Church will be in eclipse

-Our Lady of La Salette


Like Christ, His Bride the Church will undergo its own passion, burial, and resurrection.
-unknown traditional priest

Father Ripperger said that if we are detached from all things, aren't afraid to suffer, and we accept all suffering as the will of God for our sanctity, we have nothing to fear!
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#5
And he always seems a bit angry. sad
Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist. 
The demons of the air together with the Antichrist will perform great wonders  
The Church will be in eclipse

-Our Lady of La Salette


Like Christ, His Bride the Church will undergo its own passion, burial, and resurrection.
-unknown traditional priest

Father Ripperger said that if we are detached from all things, aren't afraid to suffer, and we accept all suffering as the will of God for our sanctity, we have nothing to fear!
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#6
This is silly and dangerous.

Few if any of the audience are going to be equipped enough to even understand the argumentation, and simply the premise of the debate is flawed.

This does no one any service.
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#7
(07-09-2018, 04:39 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: This is silly and dangerous.

Few if any of the audience are going to be equipped enough to even understand the argumentation, and simply the premise of the debate is flawed.

This does no one any service.

I couldn't listen, but I didn't know if others would understand.

It's strange JD has this drive to debunk Catholicism after spending so much time in Traditional circles.

It's like he has an ax to grind.
Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist. 
The demons of the air together with the Antichrist will perform great wonders  
The Church will be in eclipse

-Our Lady of La Salette


Like Christ, His Bride the Church will undergo its own passion, burial, and resurrection.
-unknown traditional priest

Father Ripperger said that if we are detached from all things, aren't afraid to suffer, and we accept all suffering as the will of God for our sanctity, we have nothing to fear!
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#8
(07-09-2018, 05:01 PM)Sacred Heart lover Wrote:
(07-09-2018, 04:39 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: This is silly and dangerous.

Few if any of the audience are going to be equipped enough to even understand the argumentation, and simply the premise of the debate is flawed.

This does no one any service.

I couldn't listen, but I didn't know if others would understand.

It's strange JD has this drive to debunk Catholicism after spending so much time in Traditional circles.

It's like he has an ax to grind.

The concept of simplicity alone, without worrying about attributing it to God and the ramification of this are far beyond even most parish priests, let along the faithful.

To understand simplicity in any meaningful way requires that one study first introductory philosophy and the various systems, especially the Platonic Idealism and the Artistotelian Moderate Realism, then do a basic course in Cosmology and another in Metaphysics. In a typical seminary setting that would be at least two or three years into the philosophical studies, and this only if a Thomistic program is followed. To then deal with the Theological ramifications in a meaningful way is going to require another two to three years of theological courses, again, if it is a Thomistic program, and not what is taught in most seminaries as "theology" these days.

Granted that Dyer does have some philosophical background, but these are questions that should be discussed among experts in the company of experts. Opening such discussions up to those who have not the tools or standing to deal with it is bound to harm those people.

I despise such "debates" because quite honestly Dyer has no interest in listening to his opponent, but in beating him and proving Catholicism wrong, and in the process trying to draw people away from the Church. The best outcome is that Dyer is beat horrifically, but in that case some who listen will have their faith questioned and harmed.

I would recommend people stay away from what in no way furthers their salvation and will very likely endanger their Faith.
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#9
Quote:MagisterMusicae
I despise such "debates" because quite honestly Dyer has no interest in listening to his opponent, but in beating him and proving Catholicism wrong, and in the process trying to draw people away from the Church. The best outcome is that Dyer is beat horrifically, but in that case some who listen will have their faith questioned and harmed.

Thank you!  You have confirmed my suspicions.

I could be wrong, but Jay Dyer makes many masonic signs and seems to have a desire to draw people away from the Catholic Church.

He does have good book reviews about the globalist agenda that was planned a century ago.

This often happens on Youtube.  People are gatekeepers or do a bait and switch.

It doesn't appear that he is interested in any meaningful debate. Even when I emailed him about the marriage issue he brushed me off without debate.

He is only interested in acquiring the reputation for debunking Catholic teaching and appearing to have the superior intellect.

I have the same suspicions about Jordan Peterson and other Youtubers.

60% truth and 40% disinfo or misdirection.
Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist. 
The demons of the air together with the Antichrist will perform great wonders  
The Church will be in eclipse

-Our Lady of La Salette


Like Christ, His Bride the Church will undergo its own passion, burial, and resurrection.
-unknown traditional priest

Father Ripperger said that if we are detached from all things, aren't afraid to suffer, and we accept all suffering as the will of God for our sanctity, we have nothing to fear!
Reply
#10
Quote:Thank you!  You have confirmed my suspicions.

I could be wrong, but Jay Dyer makes many masonic signs and seems to have a desire to draw people away from the Catholic Church.

He does have good book reviews about the globalist agenda that was planned a century ago.

This often happens on Youtube.  People are gatekeepers or do a bait and switch.

It doesn't appear that he is interested in any meaningful debate. Even when I emailed him about the marriage issue he brushed me off without debate.

He is only interested in acquiring the reputation for debunking Catholic teaching and appearing to have the superior intellect.

I have the same suspicions about Jordan Peterson and other Youtubers.

60% truth and 40% disinfo or misdirection.

I don't think Jay is part of some conspiracy, but is simply a guy who genuinely believes the hard line orthodox polemic that he's constantly selling. As MM notes above, the whole exercise is just silly. Despite his aspirations of being a serious intellectual he's never actually conducted himself like one. After all, he's certainly smart enough to enter any number of reputable doctorate programs in philosophy and then pursue these issues in an academic setting. However, he seems far more interested in cultivating a following on youtube and other social media platforms then being a professional scholar.

For instance it's rather telling that he always insists that these "debates" happen over google hangout and are never moderated by anyone. It provides a wonderful platform for Jay to use his charisma and speaking skills, but I can't say it results in a meaningful discussion. All one has to do is observe the live chat box during these events to see that the whole affair is really just a pissing match and more about Jay being front and center with his goofy "dude bro" fans. The fact that Jay then tells these fans to go out and pester various scholars and public figures on social media to debate him tells you all you need to know about Jay's seriousness as a thinker. The guy is more about his "brand" then he is the truth.
The contemplative is not one who discovers secrets no one knows, but one who is swept into ecstasy by what everyone knows.
-A Carthusian
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