Debating Thomism--Jay Dyer vs Dr. Francis Feingold
#11
Thread title interested me

Saw the video thumbnail and was instantly turned off.

Anyone dressed like that has no business debating Thomism with a philophy professor. I mean if you can't BE intelligent at least try to look intelligent.
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#12
I will have to listen to this when I've got time. While i generally like Jay and his eccentric ways I've noticed he can come off as arrogant in many of these debates. What he really needs is in some topic to be so thoroughly trounced and humbled that he takes a step back. 

As for the topic,it's WAY above most of our heads. If most parish priests who spend years studying stuff like this don't understand these topics there's little hope for the average Joe. 


And i think a lot of these eastern converts have an axe to grind for many reasons,some personal maybe. Who knows? Its not like some popular Catholic apologists are always humble either,some are just as smug and triumphalist as Dyer can be.
Walk before God in simplicity, and not in subtleties of the mind. Simplicity brings faith; but subtle and intricate speculations bring conceit; and conceit brings withdrawal from God. -Saint Isaac of Syria, Directions on Spiritual Training


"It is impossible in human terms to exaggerate the importance of being in a church or chapel before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. I very seldom repeat what I say. Let me repeat this sentence. It is impossible in human language to exaggerate the importance of being in a chapel or church before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. That sentence is the talisman of the highest sanctity. "Father John Hardon
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#13
Watched about an hour of the debate, they really got nowhere. A debate with a very dominant guy who apparently doesn't have real interest in what his interlocutor is trying to get across is not going to be a fruitful one. I'm sure the same debate with a good moderator would yield very different results. 

In a way it is actually kind of heartening to hear people getting aggressive about these issues, nothing wrong with that in many cases, I think we should have more people being bold about philosophy/theology, but you can't let that get in the way of actually discussing things, which is what I'm afraid happens here.
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#14
Quote:I will have to listen to this when I've got time. While i generally like Jay and his eccentric ways I've noticed he can come off as arrogant in many of these debates. What he really needs is in some topic to be so thoroughly trounced and humbled that he takes a step back. 

I completely agree with you, but I doubt this happens for a number of reasons. If you listen to the above "debate" you'll notice immediately that Jay essentially widens and narrows the confines of the debate at will. It makes it almost impossible for his opponent to make a sustained case against him because the target is always moving. He of course ends up looking miles ahead of his opponent who is left constantly playing catch up. It makes for great youtube content, but is a lousy way to have a serious academic debate.

Even if he were to agree to a properly moderated debate in an academic setting I highly doubt he could find any serious scholar to debate him for the simple reason that he doesn't present himself as a serious academic. I suppose it sounds elitist, but the reality is that professional scholars have to be careful with who they engage with in order to protect their reputation. It's why you don't see any Christian academics rushing to debate Bill Nye the science guy. He's seen as an entertainer, not a scholar. Likewise, because Jay has chosen to chart a course on youtube and social media he will always be seen as a layman. So serious scholars like David Bentley Hart and Edward Feser (who have both been pestered by Jay's fanboys) will go on ignoring him.

The truth is that even if Jay were roundly humiliated in one of his debates it probably wouldn't matter at this point because his legions of fanboys would be able to jump in and protect his ego. Jay has built a bubble for himself and it's unlikely any real criticism gets though to him anymore. You can see the same phenomenon with the new atheist as well. Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins have been using the same childish "arguments" against what they think is God for years and there isn't a shred of evidence that they have even once paused to examine their assumptions.
The contemplative is not one who discovers secrets no one knows, but one who is swept into ecstasy by what everyone knows.
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#15
Well, if they get points for charity, then Dr. Francis wins!

And in the final analysis, that's all that will count anyway. Wink
Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist. 
The demons of the air together with the Antichrist will perform great wonders  
The Church will be in eclipse

-Our Lady of La Salette


Like Christ, His Bride the Church will undergo its own passion, burial, and resurrection.
-unknown traditional priest

Father Ripperger said that if we are detached from all things, aren't afraid to suffer, and we accept all suffering as the will of God for our sanctity, we have nothing to fear!
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#16
(07-10-2018, 02:15 AM)Dominicus Wrote: Thread title interested me

Saw the video thumbnail and was instantly turned off.

Anyone dressed like that has no business debating Thomism with a philophy professor. I mean if you can't BE intelligent at least try to look intelligent.

I understand where you are coming from, but I have to say that JD's thumbnails all have a similar theme to attract the common man to his site.  

He says that the reason he wrote his first book on Hollywood was to expose the evil in a way that would get the attention of the average Joe.  If they can come to see the evil behind the scenes and behind the symbolism involved in the movies we watch, then they might be open to the idea of the goodness of God. 

 In the same way, I think he is trying to get people who have never considered the discussion of philosophy or theology to give it a chance.

If that is truly his motivation then I commend him.  If he is more motivated by his animosity towards the Church and his own hubris, then that will be his downfall.  If he is a part of the "cabal" in some way, then God bless his soul.

I asked him a while back why he was so blatantly making masonic hand gestures to start some of his videos and he replied that they were just natural hand motions.  I replied, "Hmm...Not when you write books about esoteric symbolism." Wink

He has since laid off the hand signs and now uses one eye lighting as in this video:



Does it mean anything?  Not necessarily.  Maybe, maybe not.  I just take notes as I go along.

In any case, he doesn't come off as very holy, but like us all, he may just be a work in progress.  He also seems to downplay anything overtly religious that would be a turn off to modern audiences.

 He advocates that people get married and have kids as a way to fight the system, so that's good!

I mostly watch him because of his knowledge of the globalist books and how their plans are playing out in our media and politics.
Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist. 
The demons of the air together with the Antichrist will perform great wonders  
The Church will be in eclipse

-Our Lady of La Salette


Like Christ, His Bride the Church will undergo its own passion, burial, and resurrection.
-unknown traditional priest

Father Ripperger said that if we are detached from all things, aren't afraid to suffer, and we accept all suffering as the will of God for our sanctity, we have nothing to fear!
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#17
(07-12-2018, 06:20 PM)Sacred Heart lover Wrote: I asked him a while back why he was so blatantly making masonic hand gestures to start some of his videos and he replied that they were just natural hand motions.  I replied, "Hmm...Not when you write books about esoteric symbolism." Wink

He has since laid off the hand signs and now uses one eye lighting as in this video:

Oh for **** sake, can't a guy just be an a**hole without having to be a Freemason? Rolleyes

As for JD, I seen a few vids, not impressed.

And I agree, anyone who dresses like that and makes it their thumbnail is not someone whom people will take seriously. Honestly he looks a little "flamboyant" if you know what I mean *wink *wink.
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#18
Quote:Oh for **** sake, can't a guy just be an a**hole without having to be a Freemason? [Image: rolleyes.png] 

Of course he can.  I just like to see you get all p*** off about it!   Big Grin
Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist. 
The demons of the air together with the Antichrist will perform great wonders  
The Church will be in eclipse

-Our Lady of La Salette


Like Christ, His Bride the Church will undergo its own passion, burial, and resurrection.
-unknown traditional priest

Father Ripperger said that if we are detached from all things, aren't afraid to suffer, and we accept all suffering as the will of God for our sanctity, we have nothing to fear!
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#19
Quote:As for JD, I seen a few vids, not impressed. 

Call me not impressed by him, but very impressed by the writers of the globalist books he reviews.
Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist. 
The demons of the air together with the Antichrist will perform great wonders  
The Church will be in eclipse

-Our Lady of La Salette


Like Christ, His Bride the Church will undergo its own passion, burial, and resurrection.
-unknown traditional priest

Father Ripperger said that if we are detached from all things, aren't afraid to suffer, and we accept all suffering as the will of God for our sanctity, we have nothing to fear!
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#20
Quote:AustenBosten
Honestly he looks a little "flamboyant" if you know what I mean *wink *wink.


Oh for goodness sakes, can't a guy wear a sailor suit without having to be gay?  Rolleyes

He's a goofball and wore that for what he thinks is comedy.

In reality, he comes off as a chad and that's what most commenters think.

Actually, he pretty much hits all the gender markers for a transsexual (from what's exposed) and I've never been able to find an adams apple on the guy, if you know what I mean *wink *wink.
Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist. 
The demons of the air together with the Antichrist will perform great wonders  
The Church will be in eclipse

-Our Lady of La Salette


Like Christ, His Bride the Church will undergo its own passion, burial, and resurrection.
-unknown traditional priest

Father Ripperger said that if we are detached from all things, aren't afraid to suffer, and we accept all suffering as the will of God for our sanctity, we have nothing to fear!
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