Vatican publishes document declaring a “female diaconate” is a possibility
#11
(07-13-2018, 10:19 PM)Markie Boy Wrote: I would be far more in favor of married men as clergy than women.  But is that on the table as an option before ordaining women, or are they skipping that one?

I think everyone here would be more in favor of married men being ordained, as the married state is only an impediment to Orders in the Latin Church by ecclesiastical law. It can be dispensed with in individual cases, and theoretically could be eliminated as a requirement entirely (doubtful and probably a terrible idea). Married men are regularly ordained in Eastern Catholic Churches. However, as for ordaining women, the male sex is required for the validity of ordination. In other words, being a woman is an impediment to Orders in any and all Rites of the Church by DIVINE Law, and the Church has no authority whatsoever to dispense from the Divine Law.
O unashamed intercessor of Christians, ever loyal advocate before the Creator, do not disregard the prayerful voice of sinners but in your goodness hasten to assist us who trustfully cry out to you: Intercede always, O Mother of God, in behalf of those who honor you!
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#12
(07-13-2018, 05:23 AM)Sacred Heart lover Wrote: I'm afraid that it appears, however, that the plan is to decentralize the Church so that many things will be decided from diocese to diocese.  Hopefully, the actual act of written ex-cathedra heresy won't take place, but they will simply get around that on a pastoral level, sort of like the "spirit of Vatican II" or the "internal forum" etc.

Exactly! I've become convinced that Francis' template for 'reform' (=destruction) of the Church is the Anglican Communion, democratic, synodical (i.e. national episcopal conferences), decentralised (=national 'churches') government. Look at the admission of heretics and adulterers to Holy Communion. There is already a schism in the Church in Germany between Dioceses that admit heretics to Communion and those with Catholic Bishops.

We've seen how well the Anglican model works for them! Ever heard of a 'flying bishop'? 

Quote:A provincial episcopal visitor (PEV), popularly known as a flying bishop, is a Church of England bishop assigned to minister to many of the clergy, laity and parishes who on grounds of theological conviction, "are unable to receive the ministry of women bishops or priests."

The system by which said bishops provide certain churches with oversight is referred to as alternative episcopal oversight (AEO).

It's gotten so bad over there that there is schism within individual dioceses. In the US it has led to massive lawsuits as parishes and dioceses who are 'orthodox' try to leave The Episcopal Church.

There are entire provinces (national churches) within the Anglican 'Communion' that will not admit members from other provinces to communion because of women's 'ordination', ordination of homosexuals, same sex 'marriage', etc.

But, it seems to me that that is the preferred model of 'reform' coming out of Rome, and we're already on the way. How long, O Lord, how long?
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
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#13
Quote:Jovan
Ever heard of a 'flying bishop'

Good Heavens!

No, but I've heard of the Flying Nun:

Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist. 
The demons of the air together with the Antichrist will perform great wonders  
The Church will be in eclipse

-Our Lady of La Salette


Like Christ, His Bride the Church will undergo its own passion, burial, and resurrection.
-unknown traditional priest

Father Ripperger said that if we are detached from all things, aren't afraid to suffer, and we accept all suffering as the will of God for our sanctity, we have nothing to fear!
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#14
Well it's clear that the forces influencing Pope Francis and the heretical bishops want nothing less than to transform Catholicism into Protestantism.

Those who refuse to admit that the smoke of Satan has infiltrated the Church are about to be proven wrong.
Surréxit Dóminus vere, Alleluia!
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#15
The only thing you can be assured of.... it will get much worse before it gets any better.
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#16
The statement by the Anglican Roman Catholic International Commission published this month on authority and ecclesial communion,


Quote:The Catholic Church might “fruitfully learn from the Anglican practice of provincial diversity and the associated recognition that on some matters different parts of the Communion can appropriately make different discernments influenced by cultural and contextual appropriateness”, the document declares.


I assume this statement was approved by Rome. Let me rephrase the key point so it's clearer,
Quote:'the Anglican practice of independent national churches and the associated recognition that there is absolutely no central authority such as the See of Peter so that on some matters different parts of the Communion can appropriately make different discernments influenced by cultural and contextual appropriateness, leading to widely variant beliefs and practices in complete opposition to one another'.
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
  “Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog also.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'


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#17
(07-14-2018, 03:34 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: The statement by the Anglican Roman Catholic International Commission published this month on authority and ecclesial communion,


Quote:The Catholic Church might “fruitfully learn from the Anglican practice of provincial diversity and the associated recognition that on some matters different parts of the Communion can appropriately make different discernments influenced by cultural and contextual appropriateness”, the document declares.


I assume this statement was approved by Rome. Let me rephrase the key point so it's clearer,
Quote:'the Anglican practice of independent national churches and the associated recognition that there is absolutely no central authority such as the See of Peter so that on some matters different parts of the Communion can appropriately make different discernments influenced by cultural and contextual appropriateness, leading to widely variant beliefs and practices in complete opposition to one another'.

Isn't this a similar situation to the Orthodox Church in some ways?  Although, their churches within a country are united, right?
Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist. 
The demons of the air together with the Antichrist will perform great wonders  
The Church will be in eclipse

-Our Lady of La Salette


Like Christ, His Bride the Church will undergo its own passion, burial, and resurrection.
-unknown traditional priest

Father Ripperger said that if we are detached from all things, aren't afraid to suffer, and we accept all suffering as the will of God for our sanctity, we have nothing to fear!
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#18
Similar, but nowhere near identical. And not all Orthodox Churches within a country are united. For instance, there are three separate Orthodox jurisdictions in Ukraine. In the US the Russians (OCA) and Constantinople (Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America) both claim jurisdiction. However, their tenacious conservatism in matters of belief has kept them from splintering into multiple sects all claiming to be part of a 'Church', like the Anglicans have.

And, unfortunately, we all know that there is no such tenacious conservatism in matters of belief on the part of our hierarchy or laity. If the 'Anglican model' is introduced as it seems it will be if this Papacy lasts long enough, I foresee an absolutely horrible nightmare of conflicting beliefs and practices in the Church.
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
  “Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog also.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'


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#19
I can see it now. The 70 year old woman with the short gray hair, who's a eucharist minister, will trade in her pantsuit for robes, but not a nun's habit. Then the silly liberal priest will make jokes during the homily, how the church look's like it doesn't even really need him anymore, except maybe to train the altar girls.
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#20
(07-13-2018, 11:37 PM)aquinas138 Wrote: I think everyone here would be more in favor of married men being ordained, as the married state is only an impediment to Orders in the Latin Church by ecclesiastical law. It can be dispensed with in individual cases, and theoretically could be eliminated as a requirement entirely (doubtful and probably a terrible idea). 
Agreed, especially the highlight. As I have been saying for 20+ years, as an Easterner, I have absolutely no objection to a married clergy in the Eastern Churches. I have had absolutely wonderful married pastors.

However, to willy-nilly change a discipline a millenium plus old in the Western Church will only give an opening wedge to the modernists. First it will be ordaining married men, then they'll demand that Priests be allowed to marry, next they'll want married Bishops. After that, I leave to your darkest nightmares.
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
  “Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog also.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'


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