Calling all women!
#1
Is anyone else sick of being made out to be the scapegoat for the evils of society? Sure, we're nice - we acknowledge that things are hard for men and it is very difficult to be virtuously masculine in this society, but we just get insults back. Well, I'm pretty sick of it. This isn't just recently but seems to be a trend with a lot of traditional Catholic guys. Snide jokes, memes, insinuations etc.

It's not Catholic, saintly or holy and quite frankly looks childish. The feminine psyche is beautiful and the male pysche is great too but nobody feels that way. Apparently, we're all dirt - even good Catholic girls.

So, it's your turn, ladies! How do you think men have contributed to the ills of modern society? How do modern men affect YOU? 

I know that you're all going to be very charitable about this because you're all extremely nice women who turn the other cheek, which is why I think femininity is awesome! I don't think this is a sinful topic though, providing we stay objective about it. I do think we have a right to talk about it since it is an issue of injustice. 

I will start: I don't like how I can't walk to the store without my husband without feeling like men are objectifying me or may have predatory thoughts, even while very modestly dressed. I think we should be able to walk down the street with peace of mind and, yes, this is a MALE problem. 

Secondly, I don't like that Catholic men ignore the fact that, in many cases, the man threatens or pressures the woman into having an abortion. It is not solely a woman issue. 

Thirdly, I don't like how I see MEN putting down childbirth and stay at home moms. Even if we do exactly what tradition dictates, it still is not good enough or tough enough of an act. (Secular men do this a lot I've noticed)

Does anyone want to join in? What are your thoughts? 
How do modern men affect your life? Anyone feel objectified at times?

And if ANYONE comes here complaining that we are bashing men, I will point out that you are a big, fat hypocrite and have done much worse on the men threads while we are being objective. We have never bothered you when you did this. Women can have opinions too. All the women here are so saintly to never say anything about this and I applaud them.
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#2
LOL well I gather it has something to do with the fact that even something as obviously messed up as a talking snake could deceive woman. To deceive man it took a being like him.

The objectification issue....
1) Where on Earth do you live that this is so rampant? My wife used to work in NYC and when I asked her if it was an issue she said no. Maybe you are living in a land untouched by time.
2) Part of it is biology I am sorry to say. Men compete for mates by flashing resources so women are attracted to big wallets. Women on the other hand need to do little more than well, exist visually.
3) I think most men are in fact quite jealous that women can more or less sit on their duffs, do nothing, and still end up married happily ever after. Being a guy in the dating game absolutely sucks, and some just like to throw stones out of being resentful. This will never change sadly until women start getting down on 1 knee and proposing. I won't hold my breath though....

As for the rest.....pendulum swinging
Local anti-feminist.....if you think women deserve special treatment without any accountability for their actions expect to hear from me!
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#3
Again, lots of nasty things said here. I knew this would attract you but sadly you were not invited to this conversation. We all know women suck to you and are lazy, greedy, vain. Women do not sit on their butts for the rest of their lives - pregnancy, childbirth and raising tons of children are all very hard. A Catholic woman would be having babies almost constantly if she has good fertility.

Your wife may have different experiences. Good for her. I will not deny how she feels because I respect her opinion. Unfortunately, it is a real issue and you cannot just walk wherever you want as a woman without feeling that way. That you don't know this is not surprising since you do not think that women have problems. I have lived in Paris, Frankfurt, Vancouver and many other major cities.

What wallets have to do with abortion, I really don't know, but I have never met a woman in my life who said 'oh, if he's a filthy rich guy I'll put up with anything'. Again, lots of bias here.

Adam was persuaded into eating the apple and then blamed his wife too. He could have said no or owned up to his mistake. Let's not forget that.

Do you want women to be men? It seems like you do. It's not part of a woman's nature to chase the men but you want them to? What on earth do you want? Traditional girls, feminists, no more women ...what? There is literally nothing that would please you unless we asked for public flogging.

Let's let the women talk for once. You can go bash women on the men's forum like you usually do. I'm super fed up justifying the female gender's existence here. Please take a look at your issues with women privately.
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#4
**Warning, long post.  

It would be a strange thing indeed if only women were sinful and men were not.

My whole life has been spent in circles where women were stay at home moms, homeschoolers, mothered large families, viewed submitting to their husbands as a virtue (and were admonished by others to do so regularly), and saw their marriage as a vocation to be lived out as a gift to God. 

I told my daughters when we were among a group of them, "See these ladies?  These women are nails!  These are the strongest, hardest working women you will ever meet."  

Are they perfect?  Of course not!  Do they struggle with sins?  Of course.

But the ongoing ALL WOMEN ARE EVIL CONNIVING FEMINISTS meme on this forum is neither Catholic, traditional, nor true.

I request that the distinction between traditional women and worldly feminists be made, and while each group has their issues, please direct your anger at the appropriate subject.

Women should be allowed to air their grievances about treatment from men without getting pounced upon or automatically labeled a "feminist".  

Seriously, that is what happened in the Charismatic Community I grew up in.  The wives were all sharing books on how to become a better and more submissive wife and mother while virtue signaling to each other in this regard.  They would go on retreats to learn how to better submit and meet their husbands' needs in the bedroom and kitchen while raising perfect children. It was like Southern Baptist "Stepford Wives" on steroids.  

There's a joke about one of the women authors of these books that she was up on her ladder waxing the ceiling when it occurred to her that she hadn't been submitting to her husband in this one particular area of her life and she realized, "You know...I really need to repent from that!"  LOL Sticking tongue out at you

But it's funny because I never once saw the husbands read, much less share, any books on how to become a better husband or father!  Okay, okay, if there was a crisis with a kid, the parenting books wives had begged their husbands to read might come out as a reaction (rather than proactively avoiding the problem in the first place), but books on how to be a better husband?? The men's retreats consisted of beer, cigars and poker.  Hey that's great from time to time, but uh...there seems to be something missing here.  

A number of women ended up in psychiatric emergency care trying to keep up with this impossible, imbalanced life, and that's no joke!

Almost without fail, when a comment is made about issues with men, the tendency on this forum is for numerous posts to follow about how men have it worse, and women made the men act that way, and the poor, poor, abused untouchable men, how dare you say something bad about them, they work hard while women sit around, they're saintly and put women on pedestals and idolize them and all women are evil and selfish even though they are treated like the Virgin Mary, and there is no rape culture or the women are just lying, or, or... !

I've never seen so many misogynists in one place.

For goodness sake! Are men hurting?  Yes!  Are women hurting?  Yes!  Are men taken for granted?  Are women taken for granted?  Are men raped?  Are women raped?  Is this society bad for men and women alike? Is feminism, player culture, soyboy culture, and SJW culture evil for men and women alike?   

Are women narcissists?  Are men narcissists?  

Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!............Yes! All of the above!

Who caused it?  I hear a chorus:  WHY EVE of course!  And all those weak and evil women who came after her!

Ay, yi, yi.  

Why don't we just settle with SATAN caused it.  SIN caused it.  It may not be as vengefully self-satisfying to you but it's more to the point and better facilitates a safe and open conversation. 

There is plenty of vice to go around for everyone!  

I can hear many of you thinking:  "Oh, but it's much, much worse for men," already!  

What an unmasculine attitude.  Stop whining and suck it up!   What kind of man says my owie is bigger than your owie?   Make your complaint, sure, but don't compare who has it worse.  That's just envy and self-pity.

 It's not like the liberal women are having the time of their lives out there with their abortions, selfishness, divorces and chronic anger.

(Caution! rant used for making a point approaching)

As for traditional women, it's not like they have a life of sublime bliss with their unending pregnancies, having a morning sickness "tequila hangover" that lasts for months, looking like humpty dumpty amongst the scantily clad hotties everywhere, sleepless nights with a screaming baby, ridicule from society, kids throwing tantrums and getting hurt all the time and throwing up, wiping asses and snotty noses all day long, giving spankings or time outs or jobs or writing assignments which are more of a pain for you than for the naughty kid, losing your temper when you said you were never going to be one of those moms and feeling wretched, looking in the mirror and wondering who that person is,  not having an uniterrupted sentence with an adult for days, working damn hard to plan, buy groceries for and make meals that don't "please everyone" and hearing about it, cleaning house only to see everyone mess it up in minutes, disrespectful teens, husbands who won't help or discipline their kids because they want to be the "nice guy" (cowards) or who actively turn them away from the faith, husbands who don't understand why you aren't interested in sex when all it will mean for him is an orgasm and a good nights sleep while it could very well mean another 9 month trip up Calvalry Hill and an exponential amount of work after that for you and you just got the toddler potty trained (no more diapers), and of course your sex drive would really appreciate it, and yet feeling the pain of guilt if you deny him, labor & delivery (enough said), plus he hasn't even looked you in the eyes for weeks much less taken you on a date or kissed you (since he really "doesn't need that" he says) so you feel like a prostitute and a nanny, no days off, no raise, no promotion, no way to get yourself to a hairdresser and taking the kids is out of the question and what difference does it make anyway since my husband won't even notice, no idea what size clothes to buy because your size will likely be different next month....it goes on and on and on.  And we haven't even touched on homeschooling, nor the affairs, the rapes, the battery, the porn-addicted husbands (ubiquitous), those kinds of things which also happen in good Traditional Catholic marriages.  

Note:  I'm not saying I wouldn't do it all over again, because I would.  In a heartbeat.  Because those heartbeats belong to my children and they are worth every sacrifice and more.  Heart

Plus there are good times as well.  Both men and women would do well to remember that.

But, you could see why it would be just a weeeeee bit upsetting to hear how women just sit around all day taking advantage of those hard-working men. Wink



Then we can play the chicken and the egg game and talk about how the women wouldn't be so evil if their fathers hadn't left home, had given them the love, discipline, and catechesis they need, had given a good example of how a loving husband cares for his wife...  And the men wouldn't be the way they are if they hadn't been raised by single moms with absent fathers, the feminist culture (which was promoted and funded by the CIA and the Frankfurt School and Tavistock which were mostly staffed with men), the influence of the porn industry, ran mostly by men, using "actresses" who were practically 100% raped as young girls, gay culture spread by pedophiles looking to prey on young boys with distant or absent fathers, men losing their fertility and masculinity from soy and other estrogen laden products made by corporations ran mostly by men and the influence of the MSM and Hollywood, industries ran mostly by men.

::Sigh::

For a conversation to be a productive use of time, there needs to be a worthy goal.  

The goal of sharing, reading or writing about some problems we are dealing with from the opposite sex should not be to see "Which one is better, women or men?" which is asinine.  

"See.  SEE!  Men are better than women!"

"Nuh uhhhh.  Women are better than men!"

"See.  SEE!  Men are more oppressed than women!"

"Nuh uhhhh.  Women are more oppressed than men!"

"Oh yeah?"

"Yeah!"

Seriously?  Save it for the playground.

And now who do you think might be happy to hear such ridiculous arguments?  Who wants to make sure the sexes argue endlessly in circles and never, ever listen to each other or work together as a team?  Who wants to make sure each sex views the other with envy, distrust, anger, self-pity, and finally total rejection?  Could it be...oh I don't know...






Most of all, and I've been saying this a great deal in my posts regarding the trans agenda, who wants us to do away with gender and marriage altogether as a really, really, bad idea that stupid gnostic version of "God" came up with in the garden?

Since the goal of all of us here on earth is to become saints, these conversations about issues with the opposite sex should serve to aid us all in that purpose.

That requires humility, the ability to listen to and learn from the experiences of others, the idea that you can always learn something new from everyone you meet, and the attitude that you hope to grow in virtue and understanding from the conversation.

How did Jesus respond to sinners (other than the self-righteous Pharisees)?  He took pity on them.

In order to take pity on someone, you have to listen to them.  You have to take a mental walk in their shoes.

It means not approaching every post about problems concerning the opposite sex with an eye for "AHA!  There's a hole in their argument.  Ohhhhh, and I can make mincemeat out of them with that!"  That's missing the forest for the trees.  

It means having the humility to realize that each sex will always have improvements to make no matter how bad the other one is.

It means not one-upping each other.  "You think you've got it bad!"  Instead being able to say, "Huh.  I never looked at it that way,"  or "I'm sorry you've had those difficult experiences, but have you considered this..."  

It means not telling someone they are wrong when they share a personal experience.  That's gaslighting.  The women I've seen post here are pretty mature and not prone to overdramatic claims of SJW triggers.

It means taking the log out of your own eye so you can assist your friend with the splinter in theirs.

It means helping each other find workable solutions (if they are available) to the difficulties facing both sexes, especially in Traditional Catholic Marriages.  This should be goal #1 in our conversations.

It means learning from the mistakes and problems of others so you don't repeat the same problems in your own marriage and in the upbringing and formation of your kids.

It means valuing BOTH sexes, showing appreciation for them and their hardships and praying for them.

It means understanding how to maintain self-protective boundaries without becoming bitter.

It means forgiving past hurts the opposite sex caused you so they don't negatively affect your current day relationships.

It also means looking at things with an eternal perspective.

Do you think the SJW feminists we all like to hate on is a happy person?  They've been tricked.  Is their soul in danger?  They've been deceived.  Get mad at Satan and his demonic ideology but don't tell me you would have done any better in their life circumstances.  Are you praying for her?

The same goes for all the rest of the narcissists (both sexes), players (both sexes), liberals...etc. etc.

We've ALL been tricked and deceived and our priority should be to find out how and repent.

We live in a time where everyone is stupified by diabolical disorientation.

Couldn't we agree that both sexes have been severely damaged and look at them with pity.

We need to change what we can and accept what we can't.   

"Oh, but we can't change anything because women have all the power now blah, blah, blah."  You're right.  There is only one thing we have the power to change and that is ourselves.  

That means being the very, very best husband (1st) and father (2nd) you can be, or the very, very best wife (1st) and mother (2nd), or the very, very best brother or sister in the faith including when posting on Fisheaters.

We really need to help form the best Traditional Catholic families and community we can so it can survive the coming tribulations.

Yeah but they, but they... Right.  I'm guilty of that too, and there really are cases where we will meet insurmountable obstacles.  Then we need to turn our pain into a prayer for our "enemy" (the one who hurt you).  Squash Satan by turning the tables on his evil little game.

Problems exist, and it's going to get worse for a while, not better.  Let's give each other the space to discuss the problems, without envy and self-pity, while trying to help each other survive this difficult time with charity and understanding.
Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist. 
The demons of the air together with the Antichrist will perform great wonders  
The Church will be in eclipse

-Our Lady of La Salette


Like Christ, His Bride the Church will undergo its own passion, burial, and resurrection.
-unknown traditional priest

Father Ripperger said that if we are detached from all things, aren't afraid to suffer, and we accept all suffering as the will of God for our sanctity, we have nothing to fear!
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#5
(07-13-2018, 10:08 PM)divinesilence80 Wrote: LOL well I gather it has something to do with the fact that even something as obviously messed up as a talking snake could deceive woman. To deceive man it took a being like him.

The objectification issue....
1) Where on Earth do you live that this is so rampant? My wife used to work in NYC and when I asked her if it was an issue she said no. Maybe you are living in a land untouched by time.
2) Part of it is biology I am sorry to say. Men compete for mates by flashing resources so women are attracted to big wallets. Women on the other hand need to do little more than well, exist visually.
3) I think most men are in fact quite jealous that women can more or less sit on their duffs, do nothing, and still end up married happily ever after. Being a guy in the dating game absolutely sucks, and some just like to throw stones out of being resentful. This will never change sadly until women start getting down on 1 knee and proposing. I won't hold my breath though....

As for the rest.....pendulum swinging

I think it's clear SHE'S A WITCH!

I mean a FEMINIST!

She must now wear a scarlet F for all the world to see.  

What's that?  She says she's busy giving birth?  

What kind of lazy excuse is that? Sticking tongue out at you
Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist. 
The demons of the air together with the Antichrist will perform great wonders  
The Church will be in eclipse

-Our Lady of La Salette


Like Christ, His Bride the Church will undergo its own passion, burial, and resurrection.
-unknown traditional priest

Father Ripperger said that if we are detached from all things, aren't afraid to suffer, and we accept all suffering as the will of God for our sanctity, we have nothing to fear!
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#6
Up all night with insomnia again 'yawn'. I really want to give birth to this baby already.

That's horrible about your mom circle story. How can those men be striving for sainthood? Makes me so disgusted. A lot of women are in terrible marriages.

You know, hearing stuff like this really makes me appreciate my husband. He was always 100 percent in it with me, no matter what. He took a 20 year old girl, who didn't know how to clean properly, make meal plans or do anything domestic, showed her how it was done and basically took care of her for three years. I will always love him for that. Cooking, cleaning, organizing, taking the baby out for a long drive, there was nothing he wouldn't do. He was there with me while I became a mother and a self-sufficient adult. My mother even commented what a very special husband I have because she has seen snippets of how much he supported me during the sleep deprived months, the breastfeeding and everything. Always there, whenever I needed him. I could complain about other things but that really wasn't one of them. He was in awe of me after I gave birth. He always says how proud he is of how I am making our children. Even now, he'll take care of anything I need if I even say the word. That's devotion.

We still fight about other issues but, really, even with the usual problems it's gotten so much better. Couples pray the rosary! Slowly but surely. It won't get better instantly but slowly and surely so effective. Every night from the beginning of your marriage.

That is how husbands should be though. I always took that for granted. It makes me so sad that my mother admitted to me that my dad wasn't up with her at three in the morning at all or shared in childcare really. I can now understand that a lot of women aren't treated so nice and that is a tragedy.

Catholic, single men: when you get married, please take care of your wife! Be selfless and she will adore you forever. It is Christ-like.

I have to admit - I don't really know if there is so much predatory behaviour in America. South Carolina was the friendliest place I've ever been. Still, I was almost assaulted in the middle of the day twice in Paris and got out of it by basically running at them, acting crazy and not freezing in a dangerous situation. It happened in the middle of the day in Germany a few times too and three of Canada's major cities had a couple of dangerous moments. The Phillipines is a third world country so much worse there. I would say it's definitely alive and kicking in other countries. Did anyone have a shocking story from America? I really don't know about america. Could be the driving culture? Not so much walking.

Sacred heart lover, I agree that nothing will ever get better unless the gender war stops. We are not converting people with this behaviour.

Anymore male problems, ladies? Now is the time.
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#7
Pax et Bonum!  A couple of things come to mind after reading your post.....What some people (not just men) don't realize, is that it takes a surmounting amount of time and energy to be a stay at home mom.  One is expected and needs to be knowledgeable about nutrition, finances with frugal shopping & cooking, psychology to read between the lines of both children and adults,  health hazards & safety issues in home products and housekeeping, healthcare for illness, driving skills for dr appts, sports, clubs, hostess for visitors and relatives, organizational skills and record-keeping and yes, sometimes even cutting the lawn. There is MUCH more too!  So, as one can understand, this stay at home mom needs to be all things to all people and ready at all times - day or night.  She needs to be mature, healthy in mind, body and spirit to do the job and also take care of herself personally, to keep others (including her husband) happy.
Perhaps if we ever change the laws and society in terms of abortion, euthanasia, healthcare, and simply loving our neighbor as ourself, then we will see more kindness, respect and understanding for those around us - all people.
Heart God bless, angeltime
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#8
(07-14-2018, 10:17 AM)angeltime Wrote: Pax et Bonum!  A couple of things come to mind after reading your post.....What some people (not just men) don't realize, is that it takes a surmounting amount of time and energy to be a stay at home mom.  One is expected and needs to be knowledgeable about nutrition, finances with frugal shopping & cooking, psychology to read between the lines of both children and adults,  health hazards & safety issues in home products and housekeeping, healthcare for illness, driving skills for dr appts, sports, clubs, hostess for visitors and relatives, organizational skills and record-keeping and yes, sometimes even cutting the lawn. There is MUCH more too!  So, as one can understand, this stay at home mom needs to be all things to all people and ready at all times - day or night.  She needs to be mature, healthy in mind, body and spirit to do the job and also take care of herself personally, to keep others (including her husband) happy.
Perhaps if we ever change the laws and society in terms of abortion, euthanasia, healthcare, and simply loving our neighbor as ourself, then we will see more kindness, respect and understanding for those around us - all people.
Heart God bless, angeltime

That's for sure, and then you add in homeschooling.  You aren't just a teacher of one grade but a teacher of every grade and curriculum planner and assignment corrector.  I've had teachers say that is an unbelievable workload that is so much harder than what they do.  Plus all the extracurricular stuff.

Thankfully it's been around long enough for the establishment of a blossoming industry of special aids of all kinds to make things easier for moms.
Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist. 
The demons of the air together with the Antichrist will perform great wonders  
The Church will be in eclipse

-Our Lady of La Salette


Like Christ, His Bride the Church will undergo its own passion, burial, and resurrection.
-unknown traditional priest

Father Ripperger said that if we are detached from all things, aren't afraid to suffer, and we accept all suffering as the will of God for our sanctity, we have nothing to fear!
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#9
I'm really confused about our society and secularism+traditionalism in general.

I want a man to love me, and I want to love a man...as in, holy matrimony living a faithful Catholic life as much as we are able.

I've seen (presumably male) traditionalists say online that men should avoid holy matrimony; that all women are whores and control freaks; that *all* women are responsible for the collapse of Catholic culture/western civilization, etc.

Likewise, (presumably male) non-religious/alt-right/whatever who identify themselves as such online have their views that all women are dumb (yes, I know our brains are not the same and our "intelligences" differ between men and women); that all women are SJWs out to get men; loving a woman is foolish because she will not return the love, etc.

So I guess I'm not complaining but rather wondering how or if ever I will be able to discern holy matrimony to the fullest if all sides of society-both men and especially women-hate me for whatever reason.

I guess I would be a terrible traditional or secular wife: I can't cook (yet); I raise animals (arachnids, birds, and now a gecko) and know how to care for them (pretty much every single male my age I have met hate all of my animals); I'm not a feminist, yet I'm not very "feminine" or "masculine;" I like the outdoors (not a very "feminine" thing I guess); I like gaming; I don't wear super nice expensive clothing; and people can't figure me out.

I have no identity or any group I can identify with, men or women. Women have asked me why I still have acne, and men have called me "sir." The Catholic Church is full of sodomites and unbelieving clergy, and traditionalists are no better than the N.O. Catholics if I have to say son myself.

Talk about a real faith-killer.


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"The problem with you sir, is that your intelligence enables you to evaluate people critically and when you evaluate people critically, you bring danger upon yourself."   -Lao Tzu

"And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds: [...] creeping things [...] of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so." -Genesis 1:24 (RSV:CE)

"And what do we say to the god of death?" "...not today."


Vive les Catholiques de la Vendée!
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#10
Peace.....people who say "everyone is bad" in whatever sense they are speaking of - really are immature and don't get out much to become acquainted with someone different or just other people in other circles.  They also could have been hurt in some way and this is their pain coming out.  We can't put absolutely everyone in the same basket of bad apples.  This is very judgemental.  Also, when we look at each other - we could be striving to see Jesus in the other person - their good qualities and work - they just might have something to teach us!  A Trad Catholic should be striving to look deeper and pray deeper - not be shallow and unkind.  Others who may not have manners or faith, "may" because not all, display ruder behavior.  All these things come with experience and upbringing.  God bless, angeltime Heart
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