On the False and Dark Church...
#21
Thanks Angeltime.

Thanks SHL. God bless you for your words.

You are right of course.  I am just experiencing continuous serious misery the last couple years and having the worst time of my life, where inexplicable very evil things keep piling on me to such a degree that I'm not sure how I'm going to make it. Some are self inflicted.

I have read that book, back when my Faith was stronger.

I am pretty sure Our Lord has allowed me to be tested, and I have been found wanting.

Life can be weird. Carefree and peaceful for one period, dark and endlessly distressing in another where one cannot see an out..

The Church crisis just compounds it all.
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#22
(07-15-2018, 09:01 PM)BC Wrote: Thanks Angeltime.

Thanks SHL. God bless you for your words.

You are right of course.  I am just experiencing continuous serious misery the last couple years and having the worst time of my life, where inexplicable very evil things keep piling on me to such a degree that I'm not sure how I'm going to make it. Some are self inflicted.

I have read that book, back when my Faith was stronger.

I am pretty sure Our Lord has allowed me to be tested, and I have been found wanting.

Life can be weird. Carefree and peaceful for one period, dark and endlessly distressing in another where one cannot see an out..

The Church crisis just compounds it all.
Peace.....I have had times in my life where I felt like I was hitting a brick wall  and could not break through it - or crawling on the ground on my belly not being able to get up - it was only when I reached out and called out to God that He truly came making His presence known.  Now everytime I hear the Scripture passage about the fishermen in the boat and the storm, seeing Jesus walk by on the water, only when they called out to Him, did He stop and go to them - I think of how I had to call out too!  Don't give up - you are in a dark time (Dark Night of the Soul - John of the Cross) and so is the Church.  This is how God is calling you and polishing your soul at the same time.  We must continue to pray and call out to God!  I will pray for you tonight!  God bless, angeltime Heart
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#23
(07-14-2018, 11:22 PM)Sacred Heart lover Wrote:
(07-14-2018, 09:34 PM)Markie Boy Wrote: We must remember the words of Jesus in Matthew 7:21 - “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

I think we have clergy not doing the will of the Father.  I don't think merely holding a Church office makes them part of the Church.  Not that I am all for the invisible Church either.  

In talking with my friend who's an ex seminarian - we agree one needs to be both part of the Visible Church, and have that invisible dedication to the Lord.  

Today we have many politicians in visible Church offices - some of which I don't see the marks of true conversion.

I'm pretty sure MM was talking about the visible Church as a sign that it has prevailed against the gates of Hell as in Matt 16:18.

The visible Church is one of the things that separates us from the Protestants.

So if the Church goes underground or is in eclipse, is it still visible?  Does it have a visible head?

That's what I was talking about.

The visibility of the Church is the one guarantee that the Gates of Hell have not prevailed.

Eclipse or an Underground Church is not necessarily incompatible with visibility, per se. The fundamental aspect of the Church is a recognizable society (a permanent group of individuals under an authority, who work together for a common goal using common means). A society is not some invisible union, but a visible, tangible one.

By definition such a society must have an authority (the Pope) who is the principle of unity and of movement (the formal cause of the society), the individual baptized souls (the material cause this society), who use common means (the profession of Catholic doctrine, the use of the true form of worship and the use of the means of Sanctification such as the Sacraments) towards a common goal (the final cause or goal of all men : supernatural beatitude).

If the Papacy and hierarchy, the profession of Catholic doctrines among the faithful and the Mass still exist, those who are baptized and attached to these, still form a recognizable and visible Church.
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#24
(07-15-2018, 07:05 AM)Markie Boy Wrote: That's a huge question.  We are at a tipping point where the Church does not look much different from the World.  Massive clergy corruption and sin, and membership that contracepts and divorces at the same rate as the rest of the world.

Ekklesia -"Church" - means called out assembly.  Today the Catholic Church does not look Visibly called out - it looks the same as the world.  Or in the rate of homosexuality of the clergy - it looks worse.

Now if you look at the small group within the institution that's really dedicated - they look called out.

ἐκκλησία means several things in Greek including a group which is called apart, but etymology only gets one so far.

Des Moines means in French "of the monks" so clearly when someone says Des Moins, they're talking about something owned by some Benedictines ... ore maybe just a town in Iowa that has no substantial connection to the Catholic Faith.

The term ἐκκλησία came to be used for the synagogue and then Church. In a certain way yes, these are consecrated or "set apart", but the word acquired a new definition just like any proper noun when used for a proper thing.

Yes, the Church should appear to be different and visibly separated by its holiness from the rest of the world, but that is not an essential property of the Church (like a body and soul are to a man), but more of a proper accident (like a man having 10 fingers and 10 toes). Just as a man with only 8 fingers is still a man, but not a perfect physical model of a man, a lack of holiness or distinction from the world does not make the Church no longer the Church.
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#25
(07-15-2018, 09:01 PM)BC Wrote: Thanks Angeltime.

Thanks SHL. God bless you for your words.

You are right of course.  I am just experiencing continuous serious misery the last couple years and having the worst time of my life, where inexplicable very evil things keep piling on me to such a degree that I'm not sure how I'm going to make it. Some are self inflicted.

I have read that book, back when my Faith was stronger.

I am pretty sure Our Lord has allowed me to be tested, and I have been found wanting.

Life can be weird. Carefree and peaceful for one period, dark and endlessly distressing in another where one cannot see an out..

The Church crisis just compounds it all.

Read it again.  Way to go!
Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist. 
The demons of the air together with the Antichrist will perform great wonders  
The Church will be in eclipse

-Our Lady of La Salette


Like Christ, His Bride the Church will undergo its own passion, burial, and resurrection.
-unknown traditional priest

Father Ripperger said that if we are detached from all things, aren't afraid to suffer, and we accept all suffering as the will of God for our sanctity, we have nothing to fear!
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