Islam and the current Catechism
#51
(07-17-2018, 06:27 AM)Markie Boy Wrote: The Charismatic movement almost made me leave the Church after coming in.  I was from a strong Biblical Baptist background, and spotting the Charismatic wrongs was easy.

But here, the Charismatics are some of the few that are not totally lacking any zeal for their faith, and the more traditional Pro Lifer's.  There is no FSSP or SSPX, it's mostly Vatican 2 lukewarm, wishy washy.  

To me, the mere fact that the Vatican allows and promotes the Charismatic movement (or are they using it for their one world end game?), is so insane.   At times I admire Orthodoxy.  The Orthodox seem to have a strong resistance and do well keeping out the Charismatic falsehood, far better than Rome.

I tried to explain these wrongs to the Charismatics, but they have the backing of our bishop and some priests.  I just don't look to them for much.

The Orthodox have their own forms of wishy washiness.
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#52
(07-17-2018, 06:27 AM)Markie Boy Wrote: The Charismatic movement almost made me leave the Church after coming in.  I was from a strong Biblical Baptist background, and spotting the Charismatic wrongs was easy.

But here, the Charismatics are some of the few that are not totally lacking any zeal for their faith, and the more traditional Pro Lifer's.  There is no FSSP or SSPX, it's mostly Vatican 2 lukewarm, wishy washy.  

To me, the mere fact that the Vatican allows and promotes the Charismatic movement (or are they using it for their one world end game?), is so insane.   At times I admire Orthodoxy.  The Orthodox seem to have a strong resistance and do well keeping out the Charismatic falsehood, far better than Rome.

I tried to explain these wrongs to the Charismatics, but they have the backing of our bishop and some priests.  I just don't look to them for much.


Not to derail this thread, but they are pretty convinced they are getting an additional post sacramental baptism, a baptism of the Holy Spirit.



That this phenomenon came from Protestant Pentecostals in 20th century America and has no historic manifestation in the Catholic Church does not seem to phase them, or they must be totally unaware of those implications.
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#53
The Catholic Charismatics here recommended the Wild Goose series to me. That series is made by Catholics - correct?

I fought tooth and nail with local Church members, with Scripture and testimonies from those that told stories of bad things spoken in tongues - did not phase them in the least! And they think "resting in the Spirit" is amazing - they don't call it slain in the Spirit now.


I showed how it came from protestant roots, all the negative - nobody listened. I was essentially speaking against what the bishop was promoting.

I initially move to this parish as it seemed alive, and it had an Evangelization and Discipleship group that was supposed to reach out and do His will. That seems to have been transformed into the Charismatic group now that just seems to travel all over to healing Masses in search of experiences.

That is the fruit I know of the Charismatic thing. The Wild Goose series is well done in a way to suck people in.
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#54
(07-17-2018, 05:03 AM)Credidi Propter Wrote: I'm glad you mentioned the charismatic movement.  I get the impression from those who are involved in it that the doctrine of the Faith is "nice," but what really matters is the charismatic experience.  That can be dangerous, because by doing that people make idols out of their emotions.  Additionally, people who are caught up in that often leave the Church completely as soon as they face difficulty in the Church, because they put too much trust in their fickle emotions instead of the Unchanging Truth of Christ and His Church.

Yes. I've been a Latin Masser for 20 years now and was just a regular ol' Novus Ordo gal for 10 years before that.

I compare and contrast the Charismatic movement with the Latin Mass community in length over a few posts starting in the middle of this page:

Sacred Heart lover
Quote:Credidi Proper
I recall once going to an 'indult' Latin Mass. In the homily the priest said Islam has the same God as Catholics. After the Mass I challenged him and he said 'Here you get Vatican II catechism, if you want tradition find a SSPX church. 'Thank you Father I said.' I found an SSPX church and found the CVatholicism I was reared with. ,Bestest advice I ever got.

Yes, I've been a Latin Masser for 20 years now and just a plain ol' daily Mass Novus Ordo gal for 10 years before that.  

I compare and contrast the Charismatic movement with the Latin Mass community over the course of a few posts at some length starting at the middle of the page here:


https://www.fisheaters.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=82580&page=2

In any case, I've met a number of FSSP priests and fortunately, I've never heard any of them say anything remotely resembling what that priest said to you.
Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist. 
The demons of the air together with the Antichrist will perform great wonders  
The Church will be in eclipse

-Our Lady of La Salette


Like Christ, His Bride the Church will undergo its own passion, burial, and resurrection.
-unknown traditional priest

Father Ripperger said that if we are detached from all things, aren't afraid to suffer, and we accept all suffering as the will of God for our sanctity, we have nothing to fear!
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#55
(07-17-2018, 06:40 AM)Jacafamala Wrote:
(07-16-2018, 12:20 PM)Poche Wrote:
(07-16-2018, 11:56 AM)Dominicus Wrote:
(07-16-2018, 11:52 AM)Poche Wrote: The Holy Trinity is a mystery. I admit to not understanding it beyond what has been revealed.

The Muslims and Jews don't just not understand it, they explicitly deny it. The point is that the Trinity HAS been revealed. If they deny it then they call God a liar.

But it is the same God. There is only one God. We build our evangelization on what we have in common.

If you asked a Jew or a Muslim if they worship our God, I should think they'd say "no", wouldn't they?

Any Jew or Muslim with a wee bit of knowledge of his faith would deny it vociferously. To them the Holy Trinity is 'three gods', an evil and blasphemous concept.
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#56
(07-17-2018, 07:46 AM)Dominicus Wrote:
(07-17-2018, 06:27 AM)Markie Boy Wrote: The Charismatic movement almost made me leave the Church after coming in.  I was from a strong Biblical Baptist background, and spotting the Charismatic wrongs was easy.

But here, the Charismatics are some of the few that are not totally lacking any zeal for their faith, and the more traditional Pro Lifer's.  There is no FSSP or SSPX, it's mostly Vatican 2 lukewarm, wishy washy.  

To me, the mere fact that the Vatican allows and promotes the Charismatic movement (or are they using it for their one world end game?), is so insane.   At times I admire Orthodoxy.  The Orthodox seem to have a strong resistance and do well keeping out the Charismatic falsehood, far better than Rome.

I tried to explain these wrongs to the Charismatics, but they have the backing of our bishop and some priests.  I just don't look to them for much.

The Orthodox have their own forms of wishy washiness.

Three divorces and "remarriage" as well as contraception??

Our Lady of Good Success, Our Lady of La Salette, Our Lady of Fatima, Our Lady of Revelation, all made it clear that we would be facing what is happening today.

This situation should be a source of strength in our faith!  Of course, Rome is being attacked.  It's the true Church!

The Freemasons plotted this for centuries and wrote about it.

It's kind of like how Jesus tried to prepare His disciples for what was coming, but when He was crucified they were so disappointed and embarrassed because somehow they just didn't really expect that, and many abandoned Him.
Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist. 
The demons of the air together with the Antichrist will perform great wonders  
The Church will be in eclipse

-Our Lady of La Salette


Like Christ, His Bride the Church will undergo its own passion, burial, and resurrection.
-unknown traditional priest

Father Ripperger said that if we are detached from all things, aren't afraid to suffer, and we accept all suffering as the will of God for our sanctity, we have nothing to fear!
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#57
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(07-17-2018, 01:45 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(07-17-2018, 06:40 AM)Jacafamala Wrote: If you asked a Jew or a Muslim if they worship our God, I should think they'd say "no", wouldn't they?

Any Jew or Muslim with a wee bit of knowledge of his faith would deny it vociferously. To them the Holy Trinity is 'three gods', an evil and blasphemous concept.

The majority of those asked in this video see a closer resemblance to Islam:

10:15



Here is an article on some commonalities between them:
Quote:Islamic Sufism and Jewish Kabbalah: Shining a Light on Their Hidden History
headshot
By Stephen Schwartz

The world’s Muslim believers and the Jewish people have significant aspects common to their traditions — notwithstanding the persistence of conflict in the Middle East. Jews and Arabs both trace their lineage to the monotheistic prophet Abraham (Ibrahim in Arabic). Jews affirm their descent from Isaac, the son of Abraham and his wife Sarah, and Arabs from Ishmael (Ismail), the child of Abraham’s Egyptian slave Hagar. 

The posterity of Ismail extends, through affiliation with Islam, to many other ethnicities aside from the Arabs, across the globe. Yet, the Quran, the sacred text of Islam, repeatedly praises Moses (Musa), and Muslims, like Jews, believe that Moses alone, among the prophets, spoke directly to God. In addition, Jews and Muslims both circumcise their male offspring, the former at birth and the latter at or approaching puberty. And finally, the two religions share some dietary and other restrictions, such as a ban on consumption of pork.

Muslims and Jews further possess mystical customs — Islamic Sufism and Jewish Kabbalah — that are so close to one another that the presumption of mutual influence is inescapable. Yet the transmission of these spiritual doctrines and practices between them is still historically mysterious. At certain points, there is evidence for direct influence of Sufism on Jewish spirituality. Elsewhere, the path between the two is challenging to discern. 

Sufism and Kabbalah alike fall into two general streams: the “theosophical,” concerned with explaining the mystical content of the universe and humanity’s relationship to God’s creation, and the “ecstatic.” Both Sufis and Kabbalists ascribe an external and a hidden meaning to their scriptures. But for the “theosophical” mystic, Muslim or Jewish, the mind is concentrated on performance of religious commandments according to their supernatural understanding. By contrast, the “ecstatic” seeks more than a refinement of the soul, and intimacy with God. 

A leading Jewish author influenced by Sufism, Bahya ibn Pakuda, served as a Hebraic jurist in the Spanish city of Zaragoza during its Islamic period, before its reconquest by the Christians. Toward the end of the 11th century, he wrote a classic of Jewish ethics that is widely read today, “The Book of the Direction of the Duties of the Heart.” Originally composed in Arabic, the common Jewish language in the period the great historian of Islam Bernard Lewis has called “the Judeo-Islamic” era, Bahya’s work drew extensively on the writings of the early Arab Sufis, such as Dhunnun of Cairo, who died c.859. Bahya shared with the Sufis the belief that adherence to religious law would not, alone, secure the perfection of the soul, but that the believer must commit to God in the heart. He was not, however, an ecstatic — he believed in loving God from a respectful distance. 

The means employed by the ecstatic Sufis and ecstatic Kabbalists are often identical: absorption in repetition of the Names of God, accompanied by music and physical exertions. The Israeli scholar Moshe Idel, in his 1988 volume “The Mystical Experience in Abraham Abulafia,” analyzed the biography of a Kabbalist born in Zaragoza in 1240, after it had been retaken by the Christians. Abulafia travelled through the Muslim and Eastern Christian countries before returning to Barcelona, where he began his Kabbalistic studies. His encounter with Kabbalah stimulated him to new and original ways of studying Jewish law that brought condemnation from the Jewish authorities of his time, although he was later acclaimed as a Jewish thinker. 

Abulafia’s methods for attaining ecstatic union with the divine had parallels in Sufism, Eastern Orthodox Christianity and yoga. These included reciting the names of God in combination with “a complex technique involving such components as breathing, singing, and movements of the head, which have nothing whatsoever to do with the traditional commandments of Judaism,” in Idel’s words. 

Yet these procedures are widely known in Sufism. Idel notes one element in Abulafia’s ecstatic Kabbalah — a requirement for pronunciation of the divine names while breathing out, rather than taking in air — and finds a parallel between this and Sufi discipline. In another of his works, “Studies in Ecstatic Kabbalah,” Idel wrote on “the hypothesis that Jewish-Sufic tradition existed in the East, and likely also in Palestine.” Abulafia’s ecstatic Kabbalah, according to Idel, fused with “an unbroken chain of [Jewish] authors ... who developed a mystical trend under Sufic inspiration.” This trend was “transmitted” from East to West in “a fascinating ‘migration’ of Kabbalistic theory.” The ecstatic Kabbalah that originated in Barcelona came back to Christian-ruled Spain enriched by its encounter with Sufism. Idel concludes, “Palestine made a great contribution” to Kabbalah. “This contribution, ironically, was nurtured by Muslim mysticism.” 

So far Muslims have been less fortunate than Jews in that Sufis continue to be subjected to violent attack by Muslim fundamentalists, while Kabbalah has been assimilated into Orthodox Jewish observance. The religious consciousness shared in dialogue between the Muslim Sufis and the Jewish Kabbalists provides a positive example for the believers in each of the two religions today. We need not idealize this relationship; it may not solve the political problems of Israel and the contemporary Palestinian Arabs. But the links between Islamic Sufism and Jewish Kabbalah deserve to be studied and celebrated, and efforts should be made to resolve the enigmatic history of their parallel and common pathways. Jewish scholars have pioneered in fulfillment of this task; it is time for Muslim scholars to emulate them, from the other direction.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/stephen-s...89875.html



Doesn't it seem a bit strange that the god of Kabbalah is the god of the rabbinical Jews, and yet renowned Satanist, Alistair Crowley wrote a book on the Kabbalah?  

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And we know the God of Freemasonry is Lucifer. :/

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Could this have anything to do with what Jesus said?

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Quote:[url=http://biblehub.com/drb/revelation/2.htm]Douay-Rheims Bible
I know thy tribulation and thy poverty, but thou art rich: and thou art blasphemed by them that say they are Jews and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. 
Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist. 
The demons of the air together with the Antichrist will perform great wonders  
The Church will be in eclipse

-Our Lady of La Salette


Like Christ, His Bride the Church will undergo its own passion, burial, and resurrection.
-unknown traditional priest

Father Ripperger said that if we are detached from all things, aren't afraid to suffer, and we accept all suffering as the will of God for our sanctity, we have nothing to fear!
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