Personal Ordinate of the Chair of St. Peter
#21
(07-19-2018, 04:13 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(07-19-2018, 01:32 PM)Mark Williams Wrote: Nonsense.

You know, for someone who denies being a sedevacantist, you sure sound like one. As Florus said, if Quo Primum and Quod a Nobis are dogma, there basically hasn't been a valid Pope in a long time.

I notice that he has not addressed Quod a nobis; these types who exalt Quo primum to almost a place in the Canon of Scripture always avoid talking about it. And no wonder – it uses almost the same language as Quo primum and was "violated" over and over by subsequent pontiffs, and by none more than by St. Pius X!
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#22
From EWTN. This is an excerpt, but the entire article basically blows Mr Williams argument out of the water if one is not a sedevacantist who believes we have not had a valid Pope for centuries. The entire article: Pius V's 1570 Bull


Quote:If it were otherwise, then Pope St. Pius V would have excommunicated himself a couple of years after publishing "Quo Primum" when he added the feast of Our Lady of the Rosary to the missal following the Battle of Lepanto in 1571, not to mention Pope Clement XI who canonized Pius V in 1712, thus altering the missal. 


Among the many other Popes who would have thus incurred "the wrath of Almighty God and of the blessed Apostles Peter and Paul" would have been St. Pius X for reforming the calendar, Pius XI who added the first new preface in centuries for the feast of Christ the King, Pius XII for completely revamping the rites of Holy Week as well as simplifying the rubrics, and Blessed John XXIII for adding St. Joseph's name to the Roman Canon. 

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Another correspondent writing from the Middle East offers the parallel case of the 1568 document "Quod a Nobis" which introduced the new Roman breviary two years before the new missal. This document contains many expressions similar to "Quo Primum" regarding, for instance, the perpetual force of law, the obligation of use in all places, and the total prohibition of adding or omitting anything. 



Our reader then comments: "As you are undoubtedly aware, St. Pius X radically rearranged the ancient Roman Psalter and changed a few lessons for a few days, and provided contracted lessons, among other changes in 1913. Moreover, he forbade the use of the old Psalter. This clearly shows that he was not bound by the prescriptions issued in 'Quod a Nobis' and since these are similar to those of 'Quo Primum,' those must not be binding either. 

"I have found using 'Quod a Nobis' more effective because the adherents to 'Quo Primum' argue that it is restricted to the Ordinary (either whole or from the Offertory to Last Gospel), or to the Temporale only (despite evidence in encyclicals like 'Grande Munus' to the contrary). Since the Psalter is the most fundamental part of the breviary, no such statement can be made with regard to 'Quod a Nobis.'" ZE06111422
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#23
(07-18-2018, 06:57 PM)Mark Williams Wrote:
(07-18-2018, 06:50 PM)Patmappas28 Wrote: Does anyone know the theology of the Mass that this society celebrates and if it is licit or not. I've been attending their daily Mass and see a weird Novus Ordo/Tridentine Mass mixture and it's really bugging me out. I want to worship God the way he wants to be worshiped but sadly I don't have any Latin Masses near me to attend daily Mass and receive the Eucharist. And also if anybody has a clue, is the Byzantine rite of the Church still licit or has that been wrecked by the Vatican too?

I'm glad you asked. I wrote an article on this matter showing why the Anglican Ordinariate's Masses are questionable at best. I don't believe it is licit since it was invented hundreds of years after Quo Primum canonised the rites of the Catholic Church. For an illicit Mass, we err on the side of caution in terms of validity, not because we think it is intrinsically invalid, but because the dispositions of the celebrants might be towards "creativeness" in the liturgy.

http://reignofmary.blogspot.com/2018/06/...iates.html

Let me know what you think.

I think I'm going to have to agree with you and I won't be attending the Mass that this order offers anymore. I'm going to stick with the Greek rite for my spiritual nourishment and formation. Plus I'll be able to pray my Rosary in peace during Mass, the ordinate priest always gives me a hard time for not following the vocal prayers
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#24
(07-20-2018, 10:23 AM)Patmappas28 Wrote: I think I'm going to have to agree with you and I won't be attending the Mass that this order offers anymore. I'm going to stick with the Greek rite for my spiritual nourishment and formation. Plus I'll be able to pray my Rosary in peace during Mass, the ordinate priest always gives me a hard time for not following the vocal prayers

Have you been to a Byzantine rite parish before?  If you haven't, no one with bother you if you want to pray the rosary, but the DL is very heavy on participant involvement.  If you are easily distracted, you may not be able to concentrate on it too well during the liturgy.  If it is a larger parish or one that sticks to Orthodox praxis, there may also be Orthros beforehand, so the church may not be a great place for quiet contemplation until after the liturgy has ended.
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#25
I've been to the Byzantine Divine Liturgy two times and I don't think it will be a problem, I don't understand the language so its easy to keep my mind focused on something like the Rosary.
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#26
(07-20-2018, 12:12 PM)Patmappas28 Wrote: I've been to the Byzantine Divine Liturgy two times and I don't think it will be a problem, I don't understand the language so its easy to keep my mind focused on something like the Rosary.

Hey do what works for you man, but I think you would love focussing and participating in the Greek Liturgy itself, the texts are beautiful and rich, I'm sure you'll get alot out of them.
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