Forensic Tests show Shroud of Turin is a Fake
#11
(07-19-2018, 12:28 PM)JEvolian18 Wrote: But even if it is fake, so what? Do they actually think that would disprove Christianity?

Their aim is not to disprove Christianity but to convince people that its been disproven.
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#12
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#13
You know, when the 1988 report was released, proving the Shroud was a fake, my faith was severely shaken. Oh, not my Faith in Christ and His Church, but my faith in the honesty and integrity of so-called 'scientists' who wouldn't know the difference between true science and scientism if they were beaten over the head with a tome explaining it.

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Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

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#14
A  fake title is all this is, with no further value added insight provided than what is already known..  I have read on the shroud extensively for years and viewed a full sized replica that our Canadian District Superior obtained for public display a year ago. It is a fascinating piece of cloth, clearly a tortured and distressed body (confirmed by the chemical analysis of iron particles), not painted or seared, no stenciling, an image most likely made by an intense and powerful radiation burst. With the greatest detail on the cloth only apparent in the negative image.  Today, the best scientists cannot even conclude exactly how it was generated, given it’s attributes, let alone whether it is our crucified lord.
"Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?" On hearing this, Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."  Matthew 9:10-14
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#15
(07-19-2018, 04:59 PM)The Tax Collector Wrote: A  fake title is all this is, with no further value added insight provided than what is already known..  I have read on the shroud extensively for years and viewed a full sized replica that our Canadian District Superior obtained for public display a year ago. It is a fascinating piece of cloth, clearly a tortured and distressed body (confirmed by the chemical analysis of iron particles), not painted or seared, no stenciling, an image most likely made by an intense and powerful radiation burst. With the greatest detail on the cloth only apparent in the negative image.  Today, the best scientists cannot even conclude exactly how it was generated, given it’s attributes, let alone whether it is our crucified lord.
Peace.....yes, I saw the replica on display too at our parish.  It was a sight to see!  I am from Canada also.  I heard there are also images on both sides of the shroud and also fibers from pollen dating back to that time and place.  Did you know that?
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#16
(07-19-2018, 11:18 AM)ServusDei Wrote: Carbon dating is an extremely bad system of measuring the age of an object because to date something, the amount of carbon present in the atmosphere at many specific times have to be measured. However, since that amount fluctuates, we can only guess at the amount present in that time period by averages. Thus, carbon dating is not a system fit for science, and should only be used as a system of approximation.

Further, temperature, humidity, wind conditions, and many other factors influenced the direction in which the blood flowed.

Do not trust liberal scientists. They are the instruments of the devil whose prime skill is deceiving. Lies. Lies. Lies. From the father of lies.

Good Science is as much Truth as the Faith, so the problem is not with Science, but with the non-Scientific conclusions that some scientists want to make which are not supported by the Science. When Scientists stick to their science, and follow the principles of logic and their science's principles, we have no problem. 

We have to be very careful of the skeptical attitude that dismisses all modern science as anti-Christian, but equally so scientists should be careful not to abuse the science to try to make a case against the Faith, seeing as if it were proved they did so, it would undermine the science itself.

As regards Carbon dating, while there are anomalies, the science on living matter is reasonably good. The theory is solid. 

Cosmic rays hit atoms in the atmosphere, producing free neutrons. One of these neutrons hits Nitrogen-14 in the atmosphere displacing a proton, converting it into radioactive Carbon-14. That carbon attaches to oxygen making carbon dioxide which is take up by living things directly or indirectly. Plants and animals that live long enough eventually have about the same levels of C-14 in their bodies as the atmosphere. At the death of the organism, the uptake stops, so levels drop.

Dating based on this can be done by comparing the quantity of C-14 remaining in something living or produced from a living thing, versus atmospheric levels. The half-life being about 5700 years, half of the original C-14 should be decayed back to nitrogen in 5700 years.

Fortunately, we have records which corroborate the atmospheric levels.

The biggest problem with the Shroud's late dating result is less likely, in my view, due to the taking of a repair section, and more likely due to the artificial introduction of excess Carbon 14 by the fire it survived. Fires typically consume organic materials like wood, and produce massive quanties of carbon dioxide, soot and other carbiniferous substances, which are easily incorporated into porous materials. (Personal experience here from a church fire : the smell and stains from a fire even in another part of a building remain in fabrics and are difficult, if not impossible to remove).

Thus, the fire very likely added a significant quantity of carbon to the Shroud, and because the things that were burning were more recently than the First Century, their higher carbon-14 levels would disproportionately skew the amount of carbon-14 in the Shroud higher, making it appear younger.

Carbon-14, and even a single forensic study are insufficient to confirm or deny anything. Any good scientist knows that repeatability is the key for establishing a scientific likelihood of a finding. That was not done with the dating, nor apparently in this "forensic" study, and certainly not enough to make a solid argument against other facts that argue for the authenticity of the Shroud.

Even so, were the Shroud proven false it would have no impact on Christian truth, since no one claims that the Faith hangs on the authenticity of the Shroud.
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#17
(07-19-2018, 12:28 PM)JEvolian18 Wrote: But even if it is fake, so what? Do they actually think that would disprove Christianity?

No, but it will take away a somewhat compelling evangelistic tool.
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#18
The only thing I can glean from the article about the tests from these forensic 'scientist's' results are that they could not reproduce, in their lab, results that would explain the stains on the cloth. What they obtained was evidence that are, nonsequitur, and therefore, without merit. If this were a court case, the data would easily be dismissed as execrable data and without merit in this case. They set out to prove a negative and you can't prove something didn't happen and that is what they were trying to do.
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I don't need a good memory, because I always tell the truth.
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Its no wonder truth is stranger than fiction.
Fiction has to make sense
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If history doesn't repeat itself, it sure does rhyme.
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#19
Shroud of Turin expert criticises new study casting doubt on authenticity

Emanuela Marinelli said there was 'nothing scientific' about the experiments

A leading expert on the cloth believed to be the burial shroud of Jesus dismissed a new study claiming that blood patterns on the shroud are not consistent with those left by a crucified person.
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
“Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog.)” 
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My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'
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#20
(07-20-2018, 04:11 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: Shroud of Turin expert criticises new study casting doubt on authenticity

Emanuela Marinelli said there was 'nothing scientific' about the experiments

A leading expert on the cloth believed to be the burial shroud of Jesus dismissed a new study claiming that blood patterns on the shroud are not consistent with those left by a crucified person.

Yup, couldn't have put it any better!
One should have an open mind; open enough that things get in, but not so open that everything falls out
Art Bell
  
I don't need a good memory, because I always tell the truth.
Jessie Ventura

Its no wonder truth is stranger than fiction.
Fiction has to make sense
Mark Twain

If history doesn't repeat itself, it sure does rhyme.
Mark Twain

You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body.
C.S. Lewis

Political Correctness is Fascism pretending to be manners.
George Carlin

“In a time of deceit…truth is a revolutionary act”
George Orwell
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