Healing Masses - are they legit?
#11
(07-23-2018, 11:59 AM)Dominicus Wrote: It's perfectly okay to offer the mass in hopes of a cure for some ailment but we mustn't become superstitious or turn God into a vending machine. Likewise we mustn't insert new rites into the liturgy without explicit permission and even then only with a close regard to tradition.

I should add in here, the three healing masses I have attended (the first two were through some 'official' charismatic organization of the Archdiocese of Baltimore) were all calm, no loud clapping or speaking in tongues or other extravagance.  It probably also is not correct to call it a healing mass, as there was the complete mass, and then the laying on of hands service after the mass had already completed.  It was not inserted into the mass.  In the order of succession, it was similar to the Byzantine rite of communal holy unction, which never is inserted into the liturgy, but is a separate service which takes place immediately after it.
Reply
#12
(07-23-2018, 09:55 AM)Poche Wrote:
(07-23-2018, 04:01 AM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(07-23-2018, 12:53 AM)Poche Wrote:
(07-22-2018, 01:08 PM)pabbie Wrote:
(07-22-2018, 09:55 AM)Markie Boy Wrote: Are healing Masses legit?  They don't seem to have a historical lineage, not that faith healing isn't real, I just think it's less in our control than the concept the healing Masses make it look.

I guess I believe in faith healing, not so sure about there being faith healers today.

This is absolute modernist rubbish not found anywhere in Catholic tradition.

What about Padre Pio and the many people who claimed to be healed when they went to him?

Not exactly the same thing as a Charismatic "healing Mass" methinks ...

If Padre Pio's masses were inspired by the Holy Spirit then you can't get more Charismatic than that.

That's not what is meant here.

Every priest's Mass, if it be a Mass, is inspired by the Holy Spirit. There are explicit prayers for the Holy Ghost to descend upon the offerings, called the epiklesis.

To use the term thus is to purposefully misunderstand the OP, and as a result makes no useful contribution to the discussion.
Reply
#13
(07-23-2018, 02:56 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(07-23-2018, 09:55 AM)Poche Wrote:
(07-23-2018, 04:01 AM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(07-23-2018, 12:53 AM)Poche Wrote:
(07-22-2018, 01:08 PM)pabbie Wrote:
(07-22-2018, 09:55 AM)Markie Boy Wrote: Are healing Masses legit?  They don't seem to have a historical lineage, not that faith healing isn't real, I just think it's less in our control than the concept the healing Masses make it look.

I guess I believe in faith healing, not so sure about there being faith healers today.

This is absolute modernist rubbish not found anywhere in Catholic tradition.

What about Padre Pio and the many people who claimed to be healed when they went to him?

Not exactly the same thing as a Charismatic "healing Mass" methinks ...

If Padre Pio's masses were inspired by the Holy Spirit then you can't get more Charismatic than that.

That's not what is meant here.

Every priest's Mass, if it be a Mass, is inspired by the Holy Spirit. There are explicit prayers for the Holy Ghost to descend upon the offerings, called the epiklesis.

To use the term thus is to purposefully misunderstand the OP, and as a result makes no useful contribution to the discussion.

No, I think that we should understand the mystical phenomena in the same way that the Church understands these things. There was Padre Pio and St John Vianney. There was St Teresa and St Catherine of sienna levitating in the air. St Teresa of Avila and St John of the Cross have written about different phenomena and I think we should study their writings in order to get a better understanding of what we're dealing with. There is the test of Gamaliel from the Acts of the Apostles.
Reply
#14
(07-24-2018, 01:36 AM)Poche Wrote: No, I think that we should understand the mystical phenomena in the same way that the Church understands these things. There was Padre Pio and St John Vianney. There was St Teresa and St Catherine of sienna levitating in the air. St Teresa of Avila and St John of the Cross have written about different phenomena and I think we should study their writings in order to get a better understanding of what we're dealing with. There is the test of Gamaliel from the Acts of the Apostles.

A healing Mass is a Novus Ordo Mass that incorporates in some manner (and who know precisely what the priest is going to do when he has so many option!) a Protestant-style Pentacostal/Charismatic service in which through the laying on of hands, anointing with oil, etc. people are healed in the style of a Benny Hinn-type service.

Granted some "healing Masses" are probably just the incorporation of Mass plus the Sacrament Anointing of the Sick afterward (which given the overuse in situation where there is no danger of death is often invalid).

Either way, that is far different from a particular grace received through some mystical phenomenon by a person attending Padre Pio's Mass at which he did nothing except say the Mass as usual (with no novel or foreign ceremony added).

The problem is that the source of these "healing Masses" is from outside of the Church. It is silly to expect that somehow those outside the Church will provide the Church with some form of proper worship that carried with it grace.

Nemo dat quod non habet.

Individual Protestants might possibly be in the State of Grace, but their religious tenants and services are not from the Holy Ghost, but some other spirit. To expect to borrow that spirit and bring it into the Catholic Church may be a subject for study in the theological tract on the bad angels and exorcism, but hardly on the tract on the Holy Ghost or Mystical theology.
Reply
#15
What is the Byzantine rite of communal Holy Unction?

Do they require you be near death?

Do we have anything that corresponds to that in any way?
Reply
#16
(07-24-2018, 01:50 PM)Sacred Heart lover Wrote: What is the Byzantine rite of communal Holy Unction?

Do they require you be near death?

Do we have anything that corresponds to that in any way?

No, in the Byzantine rite, holy unction is not reserved to near death.  I'm not sure where that came from in the Roman rite.  Basically, after the liturgy on special occasions (in my parish, once during each of the four fasting periods of the year, not sure if that's our parish tradition or more universal in the Byz. rite), there are prayers, a gospel reading, and then everyone comes forward to be anointed with oil, on the forehead and palms of the hands.  We have one on Holy Wednesday, after liturgy on the Sunday closest to Sts. Peter and Paul during the Apostles fast, after vespers for the Dormition during the Dormition fast, and after liturgy on Sunday closest to the feast of St. Spyridon during the Nativity fast.

In the Byz. rite, the reasoning behind not reserving the sacrament until danger of death is that we are all spiritually sick and near death, even if not physically so.  The Byzantine churches place a stronger emphasis on the church being a hospital for sinners.

Edited to add: The communal unction service on Holy Wednesday IS a universal tradition in the Byzantine churches. I'm just not sure about the other three.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)