I Dont Have Enough Faith to be an Evolutionist - Skepticism of Evolution
(06-06-2019, 05:45 AM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(06-05-2019, 09:29 PM)Tolkien RRJ Wrote: Of course I am not catholic and as your article says, the church has not taught dogma on the passage. But once more you are mistaking [and thus false reading some fathers] as rejecting uniformity of nature rather than Unitarianism. Unless you can get the proper definition, this discussion cannot move forward. 

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "Unitarianism".

If you mean Uniformitarianism—the scientific assumption that natural processes, as can be presently observed, are held to be uniform in the past and future, unless we have evidence to suggest that they have changed—then the passage from St Peter's letter actually supports the idea of a uniformity, and thus why the scoffer can scoff. If there were not such a uniformity, then his scoffing would be baseless. That uniformity is necessary for there to be any scientific study or reliable knowledge. If things do not always obey some fundamental law of nature then any true knowledge is impossible.

If the fundamental forces in nature can change over time in non-predictable ways, then there is no reason to think that while I have been writing this sentences they have not changed. There is no point to scientific study because the inductive method is not reliable, since even were I to get the same result twice or 1,000 times then there is no reason to think it will happen again that way, since the laws of natures are changable.

It is worth noting, as that article on Fr Robinson's site does, that no Catholic or Protestant before the 19th century ever held this passage to condemn Uniformitarianism.

I'm curious why you cite the Flood, unless you are trying to argue the "flood geology" notion that the antediluvian world was so radically different that we have no way to go back beyond the Flood using natural processes. Is that why you bring it up?

If so, it's a bit of a circular argument, because to claim that it was so different before the Flood that science cannot penetrate that barrier is itself a bare assertion which of its very nature is impossible to demonstrate. That might be fine if we had then some revelation to suggest this was the case, but in fact, we don't, and Scripture is of no help here, because nowhere does Scripture claim this.

Add to it, the idea that nature was so destroyed that it was radically changed in its very essential properties is to say that God re-created the world, which undermines his own Wisdom. Anyone familiar with Lutheran or Calvinist theology will see how this idea clearly is just their heretical doctrine on Original Sin applied to the natural world, so no wonder it has its source in Protestantism.

I'm also curious what you mean by the CCC "teaching" evolution. The Church teaches doctrines which must be held by the faithful, but I am unfamiliar with where the CCC (which I'm not a fan of anyway, but side point...) says that Darwinian evolution is Catholic doctrine. Perhaps you could cite the passage with which you have issues.

Once more unless you are willing to understand a difference between Uniformitarianism and uniformity of nature, than we are talking past each other. I agree with uniformity of nature, not Uniformitarianism. Here would be a great book if you are interested. 


As for dating methods and the false assumptions see my first posts under Deep Time the Creator God of the evolutionist. So you said "no Catholic or Protestant before the 19th century ever held this passage to condemn Uniformitarianism."  Maybe if that is true its because that was not made popular or believed untill Darwin/Lyell.  

I mention the flood because the passage mentions the flood.  You have a solid misunderstanding of the young earth position. I recommend you read up first from creationist rather than those who disagree with them. Here are some major creation organizations. 


If you need books/videos/articles on the flood let me know.

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RE: I Dont Have Enough Faith to be an Evolutionist - Skepticism of Evolution - by Tolkien RRJ - 06-06-2019, 09:35 PM

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