I Dont Have Enough Faith to be an Evolutionist - Skepticism of Evolution
(06-06-2019, 09:35 PM)Tolkien RRJ Wrote: Once more unless you are willing to understand a difference between Uniformitarianism and uniformity of nature, than we are talking past each other. I agree with uniformity of nature, not Uniformitarianism. Here would be a great book if you are interested. 

I'm not looking to buy books just to engage in an online discussion, but I am happy to discuss the point.

Since you've read the book and assert there is something different between "uniformitarianism" and "unity of nature" how about defining each as you understand them and then perhaps we can address the matter.

(06-06-2019, 09:35 PM)Tolkien RRJ Wrote: As for dating methods and the false assumptions see my first posts under Deep Time the Creator God of the evolutionist.

I haven't discussed dating methods here. I can if you want.

(06-06-2019, 09:35 PM)Tolkien RRJ Wrote: So you said "no Catholic or Protestant before the 19th century ever held this passage to condemn Uniformitarianism."  Maybe if that is true its because that was not made popular or believed untill Darwin/Lyell.  

The Greeks long ago asserted an eternal universe, and this would be a perfect passing against them. Aristotle and Plato also both asserted an eternal universe and both were highly influential on Christian philosophy. Plato first, then Aristotle.

Seeing as St Thomas Aquinas asserts that the only we we know that there was a beginning to the universe is by revelation, if 2 Pt 3 means we must reject the permanent uniformity of natural laws since Creation, then it escaped the greatest theologians and philosophers of Christendom, all of whom would have had reason to use it against the eternity of the universe.

So, no, it didn't start with Lyell or Darwin. In fact Darwin stole his idea from the ancient Greeks, mostly from Anaxamander.

The first to interpret this passage as in the fundamentalist Protestant manner, from my reading, is George McGready Price, the self-styled "Geologist" who was a devotee of an Adventist prophetess who claimed to have seen the Creation in a series of visions. He developed the his "flood geology" as a shortcut to attack Darwin.

The general Catholic attitude at the time was pretty much indifferent to the timing of Creation, as can be seen from the 1909 Pontifical Biblical Commission decree, which said that Genesis 1 could be interpreted as literal days or as indefinite periods safely. That decree was under the most solidly anti-liberal anti-Modernist Pope the Church has had, St Pius X.

(06-06-2019, 09:35 PM)Tolkien RRJ Wrote: I mention the flood because the passage mentions the flood.  

It does, but that does not really play into the discussion unless you are going to assert that the natural and physical laws of the universe changed as a result of the Flood.

Is that what you assert.

(06-06-2019, 09:35 PM)Tolkien RRJ Wrote: You have a solid misunderstanding of the young earth position. I recommend you read up first from creationist rather than those who disagree with them. Here are some major creation organizations.

I've read most of it, because I used to not only accept it, but teach it. It was in continuing to study Creationism in order to perfect my arguments against those who asserted an Old Earth, that I found lots of contradictions and looked at the claims of the Old Earth side who also rejected Evolution (at least a random changes that excluded an Intelligence directing them).

The more I tried to perfect my case for Creationism, the worse it got, until I finally read up on what the Church actually taught and did some seminary studies in Scripture and Philosophy. Before that I had obtained a degree in Chemistry and in Physics and worked doing university-level research, so I'm quite familiar with both the Scriptural studies and the Science. It's be an interest of mine for a long time, and no, I don't think I've misunderstood the Young Earth position.

If you think I have, however, instead of just randomly pointing me to full websites, why don't point out the problems with what I have written? Usually that's how discussion forums work.
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RE: I Dont Have Enough Faith to be an Evolutionist - Skepticism of Evolution - by MagisterMusicae - 06-07-2019, 02:56 AM

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