I Dont Have Enough Faith to be an Evolutionist - Skepticism of Evolution
(06-09-2019, 12:25 PM)cassini Wrote: THE 1664 INDEX OF POPE ALEXANDER VII 

     Pope Alexander VII in 1664, in his bull " Speculatores," solemnly sanctioned the condemnation of all books affirming the earth's movement. 

     In 1664 the Index, signed by Alexander VII, stated: "We, having taken the advice of our Cardinals, confirm and approve with Apostolic authority by the tenor of these presents, and command and enjoin all persons everywhere to yield to this Index a constant and complete obedience." This Index included earlier condemnations and all the "relevant decrees, that have been issued since the Index of our predecessor, Clement." Papal Infallibility, therefore, is exerted in this Papal Bull of Alexander VII which reaffirms the condemnation of the Galileo heresy in the Index itself.

    It is obvious (and has been stated before) this situation has two points for its authority:

 1. The decrees of the Index and the Inquisition which were based on the truth of the Church's tradition, especially as in this case it rested upon the unanimity of the Fathers and the constant position of the Church; and 2. The Infallibility of the Pope, speaking in his own official capacity as Head of the Church and therefore Ex Cathedra, not defining any new dogma but simply affirming tradition.

Speculatores does not mention Copernicanism anywhere in its text.

It re-publishes and collates the list of books that were prohibited. The phrase you quote and what is "confirmed and approved" is the list of books that was forbidden by the Index, that includes the forbidding of books on Copernicanism as much as books of literature which were considered against the Faith. You then seem to suggest that because a later decree republished these lists, then it makes everything condemned within them heretical? Is that your claim?

You will find if you read the whole of Speculatores (and not just quote the English section that you can find on Wikipedia) that it never gives a reason why books were forbidden, and notably, since the Index was later modified not only as relates to Copernicanism, this is clearly a Papal, but disciplinary bull, not a doctrinal or dogmatic matter.

Since it never defines any doctrine to be held with faith, nor the morality or immorality of an action to be also held with faith, it cannot be infallible or irreformable (and the fact that the Index was reformed and changed even before 1800 demonstrates this). While it does meet the specific approval of the Pope criteria, it misses out on others. It does not, for instance, teach that something must be asserted by Faith. It does instruct on what must be done which is discipline.

David Palm has a decent explanation at https://www.geocentrismdebunked.org/geoc...documents/

Interesting to note in that article that Robert Sungenis admits that the 1616 and 1633 Decree are not magisterial, so to the point you keep claiming : even the big name Geocentrists don't think the 1616 Decree infallible.
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RE: I Dont Have Enough Faith to be an Evolutionist - Skepticism of Evolution - by MagisterMusicae - 06-09-2019, 04:36 PM

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