I Dont Have Enough Faith to be an Evolutionist - Skepticism of Evolution
(09-16-2019, 08:20 PM)Augustinian Wrote:
(09-15-2019, 11:45 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: [see above post]

This is why I like this forum, I make an erroneous claim and receive the proper correction. Thank you.
I still am going to continue exploring this perspective of creation, but I will also keep the information you provided in mind. I still have a suspicion that there's something to a more Patristic cosmology, mainly because I've become more wary to the naturalistic accommodations some theologians in the Church have allowed in recent times.

I know that I mentioned the Kolbe Center earlier, but I must say I by no means cite them as authoritative on anything. At most, I just take a particular interest in their Patristic leanings regarding Genesis as opposed to some more modern creationist concessions regarding naturalist conclusions.

I'm not at all shocked to see your perspective on Fr. Ripperger, and I only brought him up because he's among the few Catholic priest who have actually mentioned this "herbivorous" perspective outside of the Church Fathers themselves. I do agree that he tends to overreach a bit in the topics he addresses, I personally have my own issues with his hard-line legalism regarding morality but I know this tends to stem from a purely Thomistic perspective, of which I do not completely adhere to (I'm becoming more Franciscan the more I read St Bonaventure  :D)

I think it's always very good to challenge our ideas and look for defenses of positions like this. 

By no means would I suggest that even St Thomas is certainly correct here, but I think we do need to look at many sources if we're going to find the truth, and it's also good to know that even the Saints had different opinions on things which are not integral to the Catholic Faith.

A real resourcement in going back to the Father is very important and needed. One of the problems with the decadence in scholasticism came from losing focus on the sources and approach (which you find beautifully harmonized in St Thomas) and turning theology into the learning of maxims that could be distilled. That's fine and necessary for basic catechism, but one cannot be called a decent theologian without learning the sources, and continually challenging his own opinion.

The sad problem that I've seen with Owen and the Kolbe Center is something I think many of us fall into : Confirmation Bias. We convince ourselves of the truth of a proposition, then we look for the evidence of it, and we begin dismissing anything contradictory of it, even if only by failing to look for it. We all do it, and it's a problem, and that's why having critics who are willing to cite sources, deal with one issue at a time, etc. are very good for us.

Owen saw Communism and eugenics for its horrors, but then made the connection with their teaching evolution as an alternative to theism, and swung to fundamental Protestantism and Biblicism as a reaction. I was at a talk of his where he admitted, with frustration, that the Church allows people to hold an old earth, because she has not condemned it, but it is still an error, and one day he thinks she will define it as heresy. That's not a proper attitude, and comes from a certainty that one is right and reinterpreting anything else in this light.

I'd say the same with Fr Ripperger. I think he's tried to frame everything in terms of diabolical influence by his penchant for exorcisms. That's led him to publish and defend the publication of a book of prayers against the devils without imprimatur (which is required by law) and hold a very rigorist opinion on moral theology which causes some of the same scruples and troubles he suggests are demonic. Thus his idea of "generational spirits". If your father had a problem with purity, your problem with purity is not because of a lack of proper formation and will training, but because the devil of impurity is obsessed with your family. It is troubling because one of his seminary students once told me that he insisted on doing all of his course on the fallen angels in Latin and that what was discussed in class not be discussed outside of class because of the danger of diabolic influences, yet this is his career and he's doing exactly what he instructed his students in Nebraska never to do. 

But as critical as I may be of those above, I think we can also look ourselves in the mirror on this as well. I'm sure I'm guilty of these same basic things, and more than a few times even here : Having a pet idea and then becoming fixated on it, even when good evidence exists to suggest I'm not as correct as I thought. We traddies love to do this, especially when we get onto conspiracy theories, so we're not immune either.

That's why it's good to have people who can, in a charitable manner, challenge us, and I welcome that from others here toward myself as well.
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RE: I Dont Have Enough Faith to be an Evolutionist - Skepticism of Evolution - by MagisterMusicae - 09-16-2019, 09:21 PM

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