I Dont Have Enough Faith to be an Evolutionist - Skepticism of Evolution
(11-13-2019, 12:30 PM)Augustinian Wrote: [Video]

I'm not a proponent of Theistic Evolution or Progressive Creationism, but to already see after watching only 7 minutes of the video:

1. A blatant mischaracterization of the position of Theistic Evolution and Progressive Creationists

2. Sophistry : calling his own view the "traditional" view of Creation, and failing to mention that the Fathers themselves were widely split on their interpretation

3. Red herring : That Pope Innocent III was Pope during Lateran IV and one document he issued was contradicted by Pope Francis has nothing to do with Lateran IV and its interpretation and Progressive Creationism. That's classic Protestant-style argumentation, to feed in red herrings that make it sound like they have a case.

4. Circular argumentation - Owen quotes a Vatican I anathema, but leave open what was defined, implying that his view is the dogma that is being denied by his opponents, despite that Pius XII and the PBC in 1909 explicitly allow what he seems to suggest is heretical.

5. Contradiction - He quotes Pius XII who does allow for study of evolution as he admits, and then says that Lateran IV does not. And in doing this pits the Church against itself. Either Pius XII is correct and study is allowed (thus a non simultaneous creation is, whether true or not, possible) or Lateran IV insists on a simultaneous Creation and Genesis 1 must be interpreted only as St Augustine insists (so no 6-day Creation), or Pius XII and the 1909 PBC decision was permitting heresy.

6. Plain falsity - Most who subscribe to a less-than-literal interpretation of Genesis 1 start from Magisterial documents like Providentissimum Deus, Humani Generis, the Pontifical Biblical Commission, as well as theologians and Scripture scholars who support, or at least allow these ideas. It is hardly "speculation".

And that's just 7 minutes in ...

I think we can see the problem with people who have no background in theology doing theology.

I'd point out again, a point I made higher up on the page much earlier :

Quote:The sad problem that I've seen with Owen and the Kolbe Center is something I think many of us fall into : Confirmation Bias. We convince ourselves of the truth of a proposition, then we look for the evidence of it, and we begin dismissing anything contradictory of it, even if only by failing to look for it. We all do it, and it's a problem, and that's why having critics who are willing to cite sources, deal with one issue at a time, etc. are very good for us.

This video is a perfect example of this in this first 7 minutes. 

Owen has decided that anything but a 168-hour Creation process is heresy. He therefore tries to search out for data and quotes to find this. In doing this he misses major facts and references from the magisterium which undermine his interpretation, or at least undermine his ability to claim such dramatic things about his enemies.

The more I hear from Owen, though, the more I think he is not of good will, because he's not just missing easy retorts and his bad argumentation.

I get the sense he knows that the Church has allowed Progressive Creationism and Thestic Evolution, but he thinks these false. Since he cannot quote the Church directly against them since they are permitted, he has to find some back door than Pius XII and Pius X and Leo XIII must have missed, so it's Red herrings, and suggestions of heresy, and infallible statements, and Pope Francis changing this ... 

In short that he knows he cannot prove his thesis from the Magisterium or the Fathers, but he can suggest enough that people will think he's proven his case. If that's correct, then that's an even more important reason to stay far away.
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RE: I Dont Have Enough Faith to be an Evolutionist - Skepticism of Evolution - by MagisterMusicae - 11-13-2019, 11:01 PM

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