Why Not Married Priests?
#11
There is nothing that could stop the Catholic Church from ordaining married men as priests. This is a matter of discipline. This is a discussion that has been going on for as long as I can remember.
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#12
(07-27-2018, 12:03 AM)Poche Wrote: There is nothing that could stop the Catholic Church from ordaining married men as priests. This is a matter of discipline. This is a discussion that has been going on for as long as I can remember.

No one has suggested anything else. :huh:
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#13
(07-26-2018, 08:50 PM)Markie Boy Wrote: So we seem to have two major issues with the priesthood today:

1. Simply a lack of 

2. Lots of homosexuality

Allowing married men to be priests seems like the single biggest antidote to both.  Eastern Catholics and Eastern Orthodox both allow married priests already.

I have heard the excuse that it's too costly to support a whole family of a priest - but it's a lot cheaper than all the lawsuits from sex abuse and loss of revenue from the loads of people that have left because of it.

And there is such huge support for it in scripture - 1 Tim. ch. 3 - Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife

and 1 Cor. ch. 9. - [/url]Do we not have the right to take along a believing wife,[url=http://biblehub.com/esv/1_corinthians/9.htm#footnotes]a as do the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas?

It seems it should be allowed - and I wonder if we are paying the price for deviating from what God established?

That dead horse has been beaten so many times over the years...

:deadhorse:
For a minute I thought I was on CAF...


We are not Eastern Catholic, and don't need to turn away from our own ancient ways and embrace theirs.  If someone prefers their way over our way, they are free to join them.

1.  There is no lack of vocations.  The vocations shortage is a man-made problem.  Wicked bishops, seminary formators, and others stifle vocations.  Pope Francis definitely has not been helpful in this area.  Perhaps the priests, seminarians, and would-be seminarians who are driven away should have the fortitude to carry on in spite of difficulty.  From the outside looking in, I think they should, but there are priests and seminarians I know well and whose devotion always seemed very strong to me who have been driven away.  This has been elaborated on over and over again all over the internet and a few times in print as well.

2.  There is homosexuality among married men too.  An older priest told me that it was a fairly common reason for an annulment years ago, and it probably still is.  Also among married men, there is adultery, pornography, pedophilia, masturbation, and any other way to violate the sixth and ninth commandments that one could imagine.  Simply allowing married priests won't solve that- particularly not in a sex-crazed culture that is horrified at the notion of celibacy.
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#14
Good points. There are plenty of corrupt married and heterosexuals.

I agree - weak leadership that does not have the guts to police it's own ranks, also too often does not have the guts to teach and preach in a way that makes a difference.

It's now going to take even stronger Men to do these things, as it's been let go for so long.

I was just thinking out loud on this - my old Baptist pastor was a family man with six kids, and of very high moral fiber. And he'd run the church with passion - holding weekly Bible study, Sunday school for adults and kids, mid week prayer services, and evangelization in the community.

After joining the Catholic Church I lost almost all of those things as we have almost nothing - and I do miss it. I want a priest like that.
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#15
(07-27-2018, 06:44 AM)Markie Boy Wrote: Good points.  There are plenty of corrupt married and heterosexuals.

I agree - weak leadership that does not have the guts to police it's own ranks, also too often does not have the guts to teach and preach in a way that makes a difference.  

It's now going to take even stronger Men to do these things, as it's been let go for so long.

I was just thinking out loud on this - my old Baptist pastor was a family man with six kids, and of very high moral fiber.  And he'd run the church with passion - holding weekly Bible study, Sunday school for adults and kids, mid week prayer services, and evangelization in the community.

After joining the Catholic Church I lost almost all of those things as we have almost nothing - and I do miss it.  I want a priest like that.

You just have to find the right parish.  The Catholic church has those things too, just not everywhere.

What other posters are saying here is true: celibacy isn't the cause of the shortage.  The Eastern Catholic churches are suffering from the same priest shortage.  Orthodoxy in a parish is what inspires priestly vocations.  My parish is one of the more orthodox in the Melkite eparchy, and probably a quarter to a half of new priestly ordinations and seminarians for the eparchy come from this parish.  Orthodoxy eliminates the shortage.
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#16
(07-27-2018, 07:58 AM)Melkite Wrote:
(07-27-2018, 06:44 AM)Markie Boy Wrote: Good points.  There are plenty of corrupt married and heterosexuals.

I agree - weak leadership that does not have the guts to police it's own ranks, also too often does not have the guts to teach and preach in a way that makes a difference.  

It's now going to take even stronger Men to do these things, as it's been let go for so long.

I was just thinking out loud on this - my old Baptist pastor was a family man with six kids, and of very high moral fiber.  And he'd run the church with passion - holding weekly Bible study, Sunday school for adults and kids, mid week prayer services, and evangelization in the community.

After joining the Catholic Church I lost almost all of those things as we have almost nothing - and I do miss it.  I want a priest like that.

You just have to find the right parish.  The Catholic church has those things too, just not everywhere.

What other posters are saying here is true: celibacy isn't the cause of the shortage.  The Eastern Catholic churches are suffering from the same priest shortage.  Orthodoxy in a parish is what inspires priestly vocations.  My parish is one of the more orthodox in the Melkite eparchy, and probably a quarter to a half of new priestly ordinations and seminarians for the eparchy come from this parish.  Orthodoxy eliminates the shortage.

I totally agree.  Nobody is attracted to wishy washy lukewarm, feel good stuff.  Nobody of any fortitude anyway - because they know it's not true.

We had the 50th Anniversary of Humanae Vitae this week - but heard nothing of it in last Sunday's homily - and those readings were all about shepherding!  And I'll be shocked to hear anything this week.

I'd love to take a survey this Sunday and simply ask all parishioners - What is Humanae Vitae? !!!!!
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#17
Seriously, when did the priesthood become the unofficial fraternity of non-straight men?

Quote:The minute the West breaks with 1500 years of Tradition, the dam is broken.

This.

As another said, it's not within our tradition and when things like the concept of married priests are entered into the equation it changes the idea of what priesthood is and therefore, naturally, makes people believe that what was done in the past was wrong. This is an aspect of modernism. You give an inch and it'll want more.
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#18
(07-27-2018, 12:54 PM)GRA Wrote: Seriously, when did the priesthood become the unofficial fraternity of non-straight men?

Quote:The minute the West breaks with 1500 years of Tradition, the dam is broken.

This.

As another said, it's not within our tradition and when things like the concept of married priests are entered into the equation it changes the idea of what priesthood is and therefore, naturally, makes people believe that what was done in the past was wrong. This is an aspect of modernism. You give an inch and it'll want more.

How do you square that with the other Catholic churches that allow married priests without espousing relativism?  I get where you're coming from, but parts of the argument seem to be holding onto tradition for traditions sake.  Can one say that the concept of married priests changes the idea of what the priesthood is without implying that Eastern Catholics are wrong about what the priesthood is?  If a dam will be broken after 1500 years of tradition, that begs the question, was a dam broken 1500 years ago when the West broke with 500 years of tradition?  I know it's not quite that simple, since it wasn't a case of a flourishing, all-married priesthood in the West that was suddenly reversed, but if the tradition of the past 1500 years isn't the tradition of the 500 years before it, was the tradition of the first 500 years wrong?  If not, would it be wrong for the West to return to the priestly structure of the first 500 years?
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#19
(07-27-2018, 08:34 AM)Markie Boy Wrote: We had the 50th Anniversary of Humanae Vitae this week - but heard nothing of it in last Sunday's homily - and those readings were all about shepherding!  And I'll be shocked to hear anything this week.

I'd love to take a survey this Sunday and simply ask all parishioners - What is Humanae Vitae? !!!!!

Yeah. I would loved to have heard a homily using the First Reading as a text,

Quote:Woe to the pastors, that destroy and tear the sheep of my pasture, saith the Lord.
Quote:Therefore thus saith the Lord the God of Israel to the pastors that feed my people: You have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold I will visit upon you for the evil of your doings, saith the Lord.

Combined with a mention of HV. You know, about how the false shepherds don't preach about the important things!
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
“Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog.)” 
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My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'
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#20
(07-27-2018, 01:18 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(07-27-2018, 12:54 PM)GRA Wrote: Seriously, when did the priesthood become the unofficial fraternity of non-straight men?

Quote:The minute the West breaks with 1500 years of Tradition, the dam is broken.

This.

As another said, it's not within our tradition and when things like the concept of married priests are entered into the equation it changes the idea of what priesthood is and therefore, naturally, makes people believe that what was done in the past was wrong. This is an aspect of modernism. You give an inch and it'll want more.

How do you square that with the other Catholic churches that allow married priests without espousing relativism?  I get where you're coming from, but parts of the argument seem to be holding onto tradition for traditions sake.  Can one say that the concept of married priests changes the idea of what the priesthood is without implying that Eastern Catholics are wrong about what the priesthood is?  If a dam will be broken after 1500 years of tradition, that begs the question, was a dam broken 1500 years ago when the West broke with 500 years of tradition?  I know it's not quite that simple, since it wasn't a case of a flourishing, all-married priesthood in the West that was suddenly reversed, but if the tradition of the past 1500 years isn't the tradition of the 500 years before it, was the tradition of the first 500 years wrong?  If not, would it be wrong for the West to return to the priestly structure of the first 500 years?

This would be antiquarianism and discount organic and healthy development of discipline (priestly celibacy, liturgy, etc.). Sadly, the "West" has already broken this rule a million times now since the glorious Vatican II, so I would not be surprised that it would be break it again.

I wouldn't go around and find a liturgical feature that existed in the first 300-500 years and target Eastern Catholics saying they should do it.
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