"Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus" explained
#31
(08-03-2018, 10:07 AM)ServusDei Wrote: I have rights given me by Almighty God Himself and nobody shall dare take them away. Repress me you may try, but how dare you infringe upon what He has so freely given me.

jovan66102 Wrote:an utter fool

Yes. I am an utter fool. And you, an arrogant pharisee.

Dominicus Wrote:You've never studied theology whereas MM has studied it extensively and even he doesnt call himself a theologian.

I have studied the works of the Doctors of the Church. How dare you presume that I have no study in that field whatsoever. Moreover, you speak like an elitist, furthermore, a hypocrite who cannot boast of the credentials he points out lack thereof in me.

----Summary

I am angry that "Catholics" such as Dominicus and "moderators" such as jovan66102 dare to call themselves such. "Utter fool," that seems very moderate, does it not? And Dominicus, you are deficit in Christlike charity. Thou art the cancer in the Church, that which poisons it and brings about its ruin. Thou are he that taunts the ignorant, ignorant though thou art. Before you presume to take the splinter out of my eye, take that log cabin out of your own.

Alas, were I able to see Christ in you. Alas, were I able to see Christ in others. He is repressed in the tabernacle. Will no-one invite Him into themselves?

Now, do not take good advice - given freely, and distort it to be something it is not.  With age comes wisdom. Background study is only one component of being deemed competent to speak with authority on a subject, (i.e. knowing what the laws says is one thing; the interpretation of the law and the subsequent valid application of the law is another).  Your bio says your in high school, we’re a bunch of curmudgeons but with wisdom by default.

It is a public forum, if you declare yourself as a theologian, which implies a level of knowledge, you have to be prepared to be called out on your posts.
"Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?" On hearing this, Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."  Matthew 9:10-14
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#32
(08-03-2018, 01:23 PM)The Tax Collector Wrote: It is a public forum, if you declare yourself as a theologian, which implies a level of knowledge, you have to be prepared to be called out on your posts.

This.

SD, you seem well-meaning (although the latest hyperbole does not suggest this), and maybe one day will make a good theologian or scholar. Right now, you are not.

You would do well to read two things:

  1. Ecclesiasticus (Sirach) 3.22-26
  2. St. Thomas' preface to his Summa Theologica.
Ecclesiasticus 3.22-26 :

Quote:Seek not to know what is far above thee; search not beyond thy range; let thy mind ever dwell on the duty God has given thee to do, content to be ignorant of all his dealings besides. Need is none thy eyes should see what things lie hidden. Leave off, then, thy much questioning about such things as little concern thee, and be content with thy ignorance; more is granted to thy view than lies within human ken. By such fancies, many have been led astray, and their thoughts chained to folly. Want eyes, want light; boast not that thou hast knowledge, where knowledge is none.

That's the disposition that all of us need to have. True wisdom is not had by reading a few books and considering oneself a Master.

The prologue to St. Thomas' Summa reads :

Quote:Because the doctor of Catholic truth ought not only to teach the proficient, but also to instruct beginners (according to the Apostle: "As unto little ones in Christ, I gave you milk to drink, not meat"), we purpose in this book to treat of whatever belongs to the Christian religion, in such a way as may tend to the instruction of beginners. We have considered that students in this doctrine have not seldom been hampered by what they have found written by other authors, partly on account of the multiplication of useless questions, articles, and arguments, partly also because those things that are needful for them to know are not taught according to the order of the subject matter, but according as the plan of the book might require, or the occasion of the argument offer, partly, too, because frequent repetition brought weariness and confusion to the minds of readers.

Endeavouring to avoid these and other like faults, we shall try, by God's help, to set forth whatever is included in this sacred doctrine as briefly and clearly as the matter itself may allow.

The Summa Theologica, which I would imagine you have not spend many years carefully studying, is for beginners, not Masters. I would venture to say that few people, probably even few priests could say that they have a comprehensive knowledge of the Summa so that they could qualify as well-instructed beginners. Few beyond these could say that they have properly done the work necessary to actual be more than just beginners.

To really be called a theologian in the proper sense means you've done perhaps a decade of focused and directed study to become, properly speaking, a Master of Theology. That was why a Masters Degree was called this. One who had mastered the subjected was finally ready to teach it. Thus the term "Magister" in Latin for a teacher. The one who leads the teachers themselves would be a Doctor.

As someone mentioned before, I've done formal education in theology (Masters level stuff), but still wouldn't call myself a theologian. I've studied the Summa extensively, but just as St. Thomas writes, it is a book for beginners. One who has studied theology, even if in depth, at the level of the Summa is just a beginner, and quite honestly even with nearly a decade of such study, I can't claim to be much more than just a beginner. I'm still slowly trying to ween myself off the milk and get some solid food. That's probably a life long pursuit, and I won't yet be eating real solid food by the time that life ends.

Does that mean you have nothing to contribute? Of course not. You just have to approach things from your rightful place. If you're young and smart (sounds like you are), it will be by suggesting things, asking questions, perhaps making some objections, listening, responding : by drinking the colostrum. Eventually after some time and study, you can start drinking the full milk and maybe one day be ready for meat.

If you have an interest here to contribute in that more nuanced manner, you'll find me, and I'm sure many other, quite ready to help you learn, and perhaps ready to learn from you from time to time, too.
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#33
(08-03-2018, 10:07 AM)ServusDei Wrote: I have rights given me by Almighty God Himself and nobody shall dare take them away. Repress me you may try, but how dare you infringe upon what He has so freely given me.

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#34
(08-03-2018, 08:18 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(08-03-2018, 10:07 AM)ServusDei Wrote: I have rights given me by Almighty God Himself and nobody shall dare take them away. Repress me you may try, but how dare you infringe upon what He has so freely given me.


Darn, you beat me to it!   :P
Surréxit Dóminus vere, Alleluia!
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