The Sainthood Bar has been lowered again by Pope Francis
#11
(08-13-2018, 06:51 AM)CaptCrunch73 Wrote: Facts are stubborn things Poche. The issue you raise is being address over at Rorate Caeli.... quote and link below

"Even if, hypothetically, it had been a murder, Angelelli would not be a martyr for defending the faith.

[Image: 2737214w1033.jpg]

Not trying to justify anything, but 2 Argentine ex-military officers were given life in prison for his murder about 4 years back.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/05/world...ishop.html

Yes, the RC article mentions other witnesses not seeing a vehicle following them, but that was the "official" story.  Given the country's record at the time, anyone who didn't toe the government line risked disappearing.

Quote:The La Rioja bishop had an active and proved link with the terrorist organization Montoneros. In the photo that illustrates this text, he is seen celebrating mass with the banner of this organization at his back, while in his homilies he spoke in favor of uprising and proposed arming young people

With a beatification or canonization, the Church proclaims the Christian exemplariness of the life of a person and authorizes his being the object of cult. A violent and sectarian model must never be proposed.

I see nothing in the article showing he encouraged armed uprising, although other articles say he encouraged people to join unions.  As far as the picture is concerned, is it possible for a member of the clergy to offer Mass for the faithful on both sides of a conflict?  I hate to say it, but that seems a bit like claiming those photos of Catholic bishops in front of a Nazi flag while meeting with a member of the German government at the time as "proof" that the Church was in bed with Hitler.

I don't have a real opinion as of yet regarding the bishop's conduct, so I'm kind of playing Devil's advocate at the moment with the questions.

Quote:It is well known how rigorous are the beatification procedures, how thorough and tedious are the presentation of evidence to endorse a cause. This thoroughness was not applied in this case."

This is what truly bothers me.  The possible relaxation of standard for beatification.
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God's love is manifest in the landscape as in a face.  - John Muir

I want creation to penetrate you with so much admiration that wherever you go, the least plant may bring you clear remembrance of the Creator.  A single plant, a blade of grass, or one speck of dust is sufficient to occupy all your intelligence in beholding the art with which it has been made  - Saint Basil

Heaven is under our feet, as well as over our heads. - Thoreau, Walden
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#12
(08-13-2018, 12:05 PM)Jeeter Wrote:
(08-13-2018, 06:51 AM)CaptCrunch73 Wrote: Facts are stubborn things Poche. The issue you raise is being address over at Rorate Caeli.... quote and link below

"Even if, hypothetically, it had been a murder, Angelelli would not be a martyr for defending the faith.

[Image: 2737214w1033.jpg]


Quote:The La Rioja bishop had an active and proved link with the terrorist organization Montoneros. In the photo that illustrates this text, he is seen celebrating mass with the banner of this organization at his back, while in his homilies he spoke in favor of uprising and proposed arming young people

With a beatification or canonization, the Church proclaims the Christian exemplariness of the life of a person and authorizes his being the object of cult. A violent and sectarian model must never be proposed.

I see nothing in the article showing he encouraged armed uprising, although other articles say he encouraged people to join unions.  As far as the picture is concerned, is it possible for a member of the clergy to offer Mass for the faithful on both sides of a conflict?  I hate to say it, but that seems a bit like claiming those photos of Catholic bishops in front of a Nazi flag while meeting with a member of the German government at the time as "proof" that the Church was in bed with Hitler.

I don't have a real opinion as of yet regarding the bishop's conduct, so I'm kind of playing Devil's advocate at the moment with the questions.

Who are the faithful on the side of Marxist anarchism in any conflict? Isn’t that the antithesis of the expectation from a Roman Catholic Bishop?
"Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?" On hearing this, Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."  Matthew 9:10-14
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#13
(08-13-2018, 02:25 PM)The Tax Collector Wrote: Who are the faithful on the side of Marxist anarchism in any conflict? Isn’t that the antithesis of the expectation from a Roman Catholic Bishop?

I agree as far as political ideologies go, Marxism is the polar opposite of Catholicism. But back to being the devil's advocate, how many of those truly believe the Marxist drivel, and how many are there because they were misled? At the risk of sounding like a hippie, I'd argue the faithful are those who believe their cause is right, but were misled by others.
-sent by howitzer via the breech.

God's love is manifest in the landscape as in a face.  - John Muir

I want creation to penetrate you with so much admiration that wherever you go, the least plant may bring you clear remembrance of the Creator.  A single plant, a blade of grass, or one speck of dust is sufficient to occupy all your intelligence in beholding the art with which it has been made  - Saint Basil

Heaven is under our feet, as well as over our heads. - Thoreau, Walden
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#14
(08-13-2018, 12:05 PM)Jeeter Wrote: I don't have a real opinion as of yet regarding the bishop's conduct, so I'm kind of playing Devil's advocate at the moment with the questions.

Don't you know we don't do that anymore?

And, yes, there's all sorts of irony in that you're arguing for the cause.
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#15
(08-13-2018, 03:02 PM)Paul Wrote:
(08-13-2018, 12:05 PM)Jeeter Wrote: I don't have a real opinion as of yet regarding the bishop's conduct, so I'm kind of playing Devil's advocate at the moment with the questions.

Don't you know we don't do that anymore?

And, yes, there's all sorts of irony in that you're arguing for the cause.

Thank you. I was waiting on someone else to catch the irony in my statement. Big Grin

Honestly, I'd never heard of the bishop before today, so I'm just interested in the facts.
-sent by howitzer via the breech.

God's love is manifest in the landscape as in a face.  - John Muir

I want creation to penetrate you with so much admiration that wherever you go, the least plant may bring you clear remembrance of the Creator.  A single plant, a blade of grass, or one speck of dust is sufficient to occupy all your intelligence in beholding the art with which it has been made  - Saint Basil

Heaven is under our feet, as well as over our heads. - Thoreau, Walden
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