The Secular World vs. the Church
#1
We're all disgusted by the clerical abuse madness, but I'm concerned about how anti-Catholics are framing and using this crisis.

First of all, they invariably refer to it as "pedophilia," talking about the abuse of "children." We know that, though pedophilia does exist in the human element of the Church, as it does everywhere, the vast, vast majority of the problem is homosexual in nature -- the abuse of physically sexually mature teenaged boys and young men. The media have been doing this for decades now, and I implore everyone reading this to set people straight whenever you hear this being done. I've had to type out the following words so often, that I've kept them in a note so I can just copy-paste them from here on out: 

Quote:The problem isn't "pedophilia"; it's the abuse of physically sexually mature teenaged boys and men. It's homosexual in nature, abuse by priests who shouldn't have been ordained in the first place because they're homosexual. Read the John Jay Report.
 
Go ahead and steal them if you want LOL

Second, there's the matter of falsely accused innocent priests -- a very serious matter that likely isn't rare because there's money to be made in suing the Church. Over the years, many innocent priests have had their names dragged through the mud in big headlines -- only to get, if they're lucky, a blurb on the back pages when exonerated. For ex., of the "300 priests" accused in the Pennsylvania Report of abusing "over a thousand 'children'", only two of those cases had enough evidence for prosecutors to do anything. This is a big deal.

Third, the prosecutor in Pennsylvania is named Shapiro. I don't know anything about the man, and maybe he's a saint, but odds are he's just a Jewish guy who likely has the standard Jewish animus against all things Christian, especially all things Catholic. Whatever his personal animus, he's working for a secular authority, as would be all the attorneys general looking into things -- people who undoubtedly have no interest in accurately naming the problem -- i.e., referring to it as homosexual in nature -- and who'd have a lot of fun bringing down the nasty old Catholic Church that teaches against abortion, contraception, the ordination of women, and all the standard modernist shibboleths.

It seems pretty clear that the Bishops of the lavender mafia have no will to deal with the problem -- the real problem, and they'd have no problem "solving" things by doing stuff like getting rid of priestly celibacy, or ordaining women. But the idea of Modernists, liberals, Jews, Protestants, and other assorted Catholic-haters poking into the Church's business isn't sounding not-scary-as-Hell. And even if prosecutors were to get things right, the media would twist it all anyway, as they've been doing since I've been alive.

Is there any way for traditionalists to win, speaking only in temporal terms? What do you guys think? How can we "win" if the problem isn't even named, if almost all the media refuse to tell the truth, and when those investigating and adjudicating things hate everything the Church stands for? What can be done to fix things when the Pope himself is part of the problem -- and he's being defended by the likes of the New York Times?


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#2
I figure that as awesome as it is that the dam of lies is finally cracking, we're still 5-10 years out from cleaning house and another 5-10 years out from a legitimate restoration.

So with that view in mind, I'm sorta building in the cost of the media working against us.
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#3
(08-30-2018, 09:37 AM)Some Guy Wrote: I figure that as awesome as it is that the dam of lies is finally cracking, we're still 5-10 years out from cleaning house and another 5-10 years out from a legitimate restoration.

So with that view in mind, I'm sorta building in the cost of the media working against us.
Peace.....I really think it will take longer than 10 + 10 yrs - it will be decades and decades and more decades!  We could be stuck with Fr for another 20 yrs if he lives to be 100!  I believe this is why so many are looking at the withdrawing of money until it is properly resolved and even leaving to worship elsewhere and "perhaps" return when it is all over and thinking straight - like having the H Spirit in the Vatican.....Each day I lose a little more respect - if that is even possible now.....God bless, angeltime :heart:
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#4
Vox, I know exactly what you mean. As I'm sure most of you know, the Diocese of Lincoln recently had an old scandal come to light. It had been handled swiftly and correctly by Bishop Bruskewitz, but he hadn't been 'transparent', so it came back to bite Bishop Conley in the arse.

Then, at almost the same time, we had a new situation emerge. A Pastor had formed a 'special friendship' with a young, adult male. As far as any accusations being made, there was no sexual activity involved, but it was clearly inappropriate. Bishop Conley acted expeditiously, removing the Priest from ministry.

Unfortunately, that resulted in a hurried and unplanned movement of Pastors. As a result, we lost our Pastor of 13 years who was sent to take over the affected Parish.

I was at our community supper when I remarked that St Wenceslaus had a new Pastor. One of the fellows, a Methodist, expressed surprise. His wife said, 'Oh you know about it! Fr Doty was moved to take over from that guy that was messing with little boys'. I rapidly corrected her with the facts, restraining my temper with difficulty, but that is the attitude we're dealing with.

BTW, I hadn't mentioned any of this out of shame, I suppose. I've been bragging on Lincoln ever since I moved into the Diocese, but with the coverage on 1P5 and other Catholic sources, I guess it's well known. It just goes to show that no matter how solid and orthodox a Diocese is, the Devil is working to take it down.
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

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Deum timete, regem honorificate.
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#5
(08-30-2018, 04:23 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: Vox, I know exactly what you mean. As I'm sure most of you know, the Diocese of Lincoln recently had an old scandal come to light. It had been handled swiftly and correctly by Bishop Bruskewitz, but he hadn't been 'transparent', so it came back to bite Bishop Conley in the arse.

Then, at almost the same time, we had a new situation emerge. A Pastor had formed a 'special friendship' with a young, adult male. As far as any accusations being made, there was no sexual activity involved, but it was clearly inappropriate. Bishop Conley acted expeditiously, removing the Priest from ministry.

Unfortunately, that resulted in a hurried and unplanned movement of Pastors. As a result, we lost our Pastor of 13 years who was sent to take over the affected Parish.

I was at our community supper when I remarked that St Wenceslaus had a new Pastor. One of the fellows, a Methodist, expressed surprise. His wife said, 'Oh you know about it! Fr Doty was moved to take over from that guy that was messing with little boys'. I rapidly corrected her with the facts, restraining my temper with difficulty, but that is the attitude we're dealing with.

BTW, I hadn't mentioned any of this out of shame, I suppose. I've been bragging on Lincoln ever since I moved into the Diocese, but with the coverage on 1P5 and other Catholic sources, I guess it's well known. It just goes to show that no matter how solid and orthodox a Diocese is, the Devil is working to take it down.


Without asking for too many details, what was inappropriate about the friendship if there was no sexual activity involved?  Was it an "everything but the kitchen sink" kind of thing?
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#6
Well, I don't know the details beyond what the Chancery issued, but I think your characterisation is probably correct.
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
  “Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog also.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'


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#7
(08-30-2018, 03:57 AM)VoxClamantis Wrote: We're all disgusted by the clerical abuse madness, but I'm concerned about how anti-Catholics are framing and using this crisis.

First of all, they invariably refer to it as "pedophilia," talking about the abuse of "children." We know that, though pedophilia does exist in the human element of the Church, as it does everywhere, the vast, vast majority of the problem is homosexual in nature -- the abuse of physically sexually mature teenaged boys and young men. The media have been doing this for decades now, and I implore everyone reading this to set people straight whenever you hear this being done. I've had to type out the following words so often, that I've kept them in a note so I can just copy-paste them from here on out: 

Quote:The problem isn't "pedophilia"; it's the abuse of physically sexually mature teenaged boys and men. It's homosexual in nature, abuse by priests who shouldn't have been ordained in the first place because they're homosexual. Read the John Jay Report.
 
Go ahead and steal them if you want LOL

Second, there's the matter of falsely accused innocent priests -- a very serious matter that likely isn't rare because there's money to be made in suing the Church. Over the years, many innocent priests have had their names dragged through the mud in big headlines -- only to get, if they're lucky, a blurb on the back pages when exonerated. For ex., of the "300 priests" accused in the Pennsylvania Report of abusing "over a thousand 'children'", only two of those cases had enough evidence for prosecutors to do anything. This is a big deal.

Third, the prosecutor in Pennsylvania is named Shapiro. I don't know anything about the man, and maybe he's a saint, but odds are he's just a Jewish guy who likely has the standard Jewish animus against all things Christian, especially all things Catholic. Whatever his personal animus, he's working for a secular authority, as would be all the attorneys general looking into things -- people who undoubtedly have no interest in accurately naming the problem -- i.e., referring to it as homosexual in nature -- and who'd have a lot of fun bringing down the nasty old Catholic Church that teaches against abortion, contraception, the ordination of women, and all the standard modernist shibboleths.

It seems pretty clear that the Bishops of the lavender mafia have no will to deal with the problem -- the real problem, and they'd have no problem "solving" things by doing stuff like getting rid of priestly celibacy, or ordaining women. But the idea of Modernists, liberals, Jews, Protestants, and other assorted Catholic-haters poking into the Church's business isn't sounding not-scary-as-Hell. And even if prosecutors were to get things right, the media would twist it all anyway, as they've been doing since I've been alive.

Is there any way for traditionalists to win, speaking only in temporal terms? What do you guys think? How can we "win" if the problem isn't even named, if almost all the media refuse to tell the truth, and when those investigating and adjudicating things hate everything the Church stands for? What can be done to fix things when the Pope himself is part of the problem -- and he's being defended by the likes of the New York Times?


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I called this in another thread!

The liberal neanderthal media is saying "angry Catholics mad at great commie pope!"

This crap is exactly why I love pulling out my wallet of Trump on a hundred dollar bill at collection time!

I was told I can't go to SSPX Mass if its to protest the Pope. Don't worry, I only go for the liturgy. I pull out my wallet at the Novus churches to protest!
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#8
to say there is no or never was any pedophilia in this scandal i find not entirely true, because if there was even one boy who in terms of this arguement was not a " teenager " then it is pedophilia, and having looked up the definitions of pedophilia, prepubecent children, and puberty , the question then if we are going to split hairs is when is the " Teenager " no longer a " child " because then narrative is getting twisted when it doesnt need to be, because this splitting of hairs between homosexuals, pedophiles, and the two being connected, doesnt mean jack. A criminal is a criminal, you can't lump ALL people into a reduced category and saying well it is ONLY SOME, isn't helping anything either. Because all of a sudden one wants to argue that Homosexuality is not only a sin but a mental disorder, so the topic at hand becomes deeper. and the broad strokes being used to paint the picture are becoming blurred even further. trying to link a mental disorder, and sexual orientation to a criminal , is insane, a crime is a crime. A hate crime is still a crime, there is need to give extra labels to Crime. Because SIN , Evil, and Satan are the causes of Crimes. Mental disorders can come into play if they are relevant in trying to find a way to cure the mental issue. But you cant cure evil, you cant stop sin, you cant stop satan. Only Christ , and God can stop satan, and Mary and the Saints, through God.

On our own we dont stand a chance against satan, or the evil satan produces.

We have laws protecting children, which are still teenagers , it is called Statutory Rape, at least here in America, that law states , that a teenager and it may very from state to state , but the general concept is that a teenager is too young, and can not legally concent to any sexual relationship. An science has proven that human brain doesnt fully mature until around the age of 25, so with that much information, why in the world does anyone want to split hairs on what constitutes being a pedophile. As if it is any better that these priests who have committed these crimes are a bit better off because the victims in question are in their teens ? Or is the confusion that there are no exact statistics on ages ? An then would it make everyone feel better that has a problem with the word pedophile, if all the victims were under the age of 13 ? does that sastify that the victims are still innocent victims ?

I don't like trying to paint crime different colors . Wrong is Wrong. I understand if the word pedophile is becoming a buzz word and that is annoying, buzz words can be annoying.

As to the secular world vs the Church, and other religions butting in the Catholic Churchs' affairs, that is just normal. in the butting part. do this do that, everyone has an opinion, The Church won't win versus the secular left, or the secular world in general, if it did then we are talking about Utopia, or the Second coming of Christ and the end times. At that point I think is when the Church wins.

I agree that people need to becareful of lumping all clergy into this pot, that is wreckless and ignorant.

But the Media , telling the truth is now dead, and can never be trusted again, it is up to everyone to research the news on their own, check all possible sources compare what one countries news agencies are saying in regards to any topic, versus anothers, an compare all medias reporting of a story against each other, and then piece it all together the best we can and toss out the bullvinescatology that is left.

Anyone can do it, you don't have to be a scholar , or an accredited journalist to sit there and take the time and review what is being said, when events happen online and are posted online, and if you want to keep a record of it before it gets ripped off what ever site it is on, take what is called a screenshot, and create a small file on your computer and just save it for reference . An when that media outlet starts to claim they never said it, boom you got it lock stock an barrel. Make sure it is clear though and has the companies name in view and the authors name in it.

Plenty of articles are circulating that supposedly, " conservative christians are waging war on the church " that is another insane narrative, and a double attack on now conservative and christians, and the joke there is, the media has never, ever liked Christians, EVER.


And all this , the sky is falling, oh no what happens if the church is destroyed, good grief, as far as I can tell plenty of religions are out there that do not have a head of state, a leader, that is as well known as the papacy. you ask anyone who is the head of the church, off hand they will reply the pope, you ask who is the leader of buddhism, and they will say, Buddha ?

The church will never be outlawed, or forced into hiding from society, Constantine already did his part and established our faith as a legitamite religion. And Christianity was surviving well before the Vatican was ever established in Rome and the foundation was physically poured and walls built. When Islam, is no longer accepted as a religion and considered a cult, along with buddhism, and Wicca the " earth religion " Then maybe christians could reasonably get a little nervous that they are next. But as long as there are free countries in existance, the Roman Catholic Church and Christianity will always find a home.
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#9
(08-31-2018, 01:15 AM)originalscreenname Wrote: to say there is no or never was any pedophilia in this scandal i find not entirely true, because if there was even one boy who in terms of this arguement was not a " teenager " then it is pedophilia, and having looked up the definitions of pedophilia, prepubecent children, and puberty , the question then if we are going to split hairs is when is the " Teenager " no longer a " child "  because then narrative is getting twisted when it doesnt need to be, because this splitting of hairs between homosexuals, pedophiles, and the two being connected,  doesnt mean jack. A criminal is a criminal,  you can't lump ALL people into a reduced category and saying well it is ONLY SOME, isn't helping anything either. Because all of a sudden one wants to argue that Homosexuality is not only a sin but a mental disorder, so the topic at hand becomes deeper. and the broad strokes being used to paint the picture are becoming blurred even further.  trying to link a mental disorder, and sexual orientation to a criminal , is insane, a crime is a crime. A hate crime is still a crime, there is need to give extra labels to Crime. Because SIN , Evil, and Satan are the causes of Crimes.  Mental disorders  can come into play if they are relevant in trying to find a way to cure the mental issue. But you cant cure evil, you cant stop sin, you cant  stop satan.  Only Christ , and God can stop satan, and Mary and the Saints, through God.  

On our own we dont stand a chance against satan, or the evil satan produces.

We have laws protecting children, which are still teenagers , it is called Statutory Rape, at least here in America, that law states , that a teenager and it may very from state to state , but the general concept is that a teenager is too young,  and can not legally concent to any sexual relationship. An science has proven that human brain doesnt fully mature until around the age of 25, so with that much information, why in the world does anyone want to split hairs on what constitutes being a pedophile. As if it is any better that these priests who have committed these crimes  are a bit better off because the victims in question are in their teens ? Or is the confusion that there are no exact statistics on ages ?   An then would it make everyone feel better that has a problem with the word pedophile, if all the victims were under the age of 13 ? does that sastify that the victims are still innocent victims ?

I don't like trying to paint crime different colors . Wrong is Wrong. I understand if the word pedophile is becoming a buzz word and that is annoying, buzz words can be annoying.

As to the secular world vs the Church, and other religions butting in the Catholic Churchs' affairs, that is just normal. in the butting part. do this do that, everyone has an opinion, The Church won't win versus the secular left, or the secular world in general, if it did then we are talking about Utopia, or the Second coming of Christ and the end times. At that point I think is when the Church wins.

I agree that people need to becareful of lumping all clergy into this pot, that is wreckless and ignorant.

But the Media , telling the truth is now dead, and can never be trusted again, it is up to everyone to research the news on their own, check all possible sources compare what one countries news agencies are saying in regards to any topic, versus anothers, an compare all medias reporting of a story against each other, and then piece it all together the best we can and toss out the bullvinescatology that is left.

Anyone can do it, you don't have to be a scholar , or an accredited journalist to sit there and take the time and review what is being said, when events happen  online and are posted online, and  if you want to keep a record of it before it gets ripped off what ever site it is on, take what is called a screenshot, and create a small file on your computer and just save it for reference .  An when that media outlet starts to claim they never said it, boom you got it lock stock an barrel.  Make sure it is clear though and has the companies name in view and the authors name in it.

Plenty of articles are circulating that supposedly, " conservative christians  are waging war on the church " that is another insane narrative, and a double attack on now conservative and christians, and the joke there is, the media has never, ever liked Christians, EVER.


And  all this , the sky is falling, oh no what happens if the church is destroyed, good grief, as far as I can tell plenty of religions are out there that do not have a head of state, a leader, that is as well known as the papacy. you ask anyone who is the head of the church, off hand they will reply the pope, you ask who is the leader of buddhism, and they will say, Buddha ?

The church will never be outlawed, or forced into hiding from society, Constantine already did his part and established our faith as a legitamite religion. And Christianity was surviving well before the Vatican was ever established in Rome and the foundation was physically poured and  walls built.   When Islam, is no longer accepted as a religion and considered a cult, along with buddhism, and Wicca the " earth religion "  Then maybe christians could reasonably get a little nervous that they are next. But as long as there are free countries in existance, the Roman Catholic Church and Christianity will always find a home.
Peace.....the people I associate with are well aware that not all priests and bishops belong in one basket of bad apples.  We have worked with many of them for years and believe them to be trustworthy. To be under suspicion and fearing false accusations is not an easy call or what I would say a fun vocation.  Unfortunately, some of these may have to be tossed around or out the door also since we don't know who is who and until we can find a way to weed out the bad weeds, and start anew our voices still must be heard.  I think Jesus is the one who will have to separate the weeds from the darnell, and the goats from the sheep!  God bless, angeltime :heart:
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#10
(08-31-2018, 01:15 AM)originalscreenname Wrote: to say there is no or never was any pedophilia in this scandal i find not entirely true, because if there was even one boy who in terms of this arguement was not a " teenager " then it is pedophilia, and having looked up the definitions of pedophilia, prepubecent children, and puberty , the question then if we are going to split hairs is when is the " Teenager " no longer a " child "  because then narrative is getting twisted when it doesnt need to be, because this splitting of hairs between homosexuals, pedophiles, and the two being connected,  doesnt mean jack. A criminal is a criminal,  you can't lump ALL people into a reduced category and saying well it is ONLY SOME, isn't helping anything either. 

Knowing who the victims are tells us who the abusers are. It doesn't matter that abusing a teenager is equally a crime as raping a baby or a 5-year old; the former is qualitatively a different thing, and everyone knows it.  A man who abuses a physically sexually mature 16-year old is committing a homosexual act. Pedophilia is it's "own thing" psychologically. It absolutely matters who the abusers are, and whom they're abusing.
 

Quote:I don't like trying to paint crime different colors . Wrong is Wrong. I understand if the word pedophile is becoming a buzz word and that is annoying, buzz words can be annoying.

The Church does. There are mortal sins and venial ones. There are the ends, motivations, and contexts of acts. Etc. This problem will never be solved if it isn't named. Pretending as if the matter is pedophillia when it is overwhemlingly ephebophilia won't fix things, and it slurs our priests.
 

Quote:And  all this , the sky is falling, oh no what happens if the church is destroyed, good grief, as far as I can tell plenty of religions are out there that do not have a head of state, a leader, that is as well known as the papacy. you ask anyone who is the head of the church, off hand they will reply the pope, you ask who is the leader of buddhism, and they will say, Buddha ?
 
The Church can't be destroyed; we have Christ's promise. But we're supposed to do what we're supposed to do.
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