American Circumcision
#91
(01-15-2019, 03:09 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(01-15-2019, 02:47 PM)CatholicWoman Wrote: Comparing circumcision to the evils of abortion is absolutley absurd. Any non-Catholics out there reading these things, do not let these people sully your views of Catholicism. These people do not speak for us Catholics and do not speak for the Church.

God used circumcision in a Covenant with man in the Old Testament. Therefore, the act of cutting the foreskin can not be inherently immoral. To say circumcision is an "invention is satan" which was stated previously in this thread is a blasphemous, evil statement. This is not a teaching of the Church, just a blasphemous opinion of one individual.

I said MODERN circumcision.  Quit misquoting me for dramatic effect, Demon Harlot.

If you're looking for something more like a Catholic Taliban, you may want to try Suscipe Domine.  They'll ban you for the slightest ruffle of pious feathers there.  Your pearls will be quite safe from clutching.

Shame on you. You were absolutely referring to OT circumcision. That's why you said "you had a hard time believing a loving god" would do something like that.

Blasphemy. 

And resorting to name calling is always a sure sign you lost the argument. You know what you say has no basis in logic or Biblical history or in Catholic Theology. 

Trying to hurt someone emotionally is a sin too. Trying to ruin someone's reputation is a mortal sin. Shame on you. If you cared about your soul as much as you cared about your penis, you would never say what you did.

May God have mercy on you.
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#92
(01-15-2019, 03:09 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(01-15-2019, 02:47 PM)CatholicWoman Wrote: Comparing circumcision to the evils of abortion is absolutley absurd. Any non-Catholics out there reading these things, do not let these people sully your views of Catholicism. These people do not speak for us Catholics and do not speak for the Church.

God used circumcision in a Covenant with man in the Old Testament. Therefore, the act of cutting the foreskin can not be inherently immoral. To say circumcision is an "invention is satan" which was stated previously in this thread is a blasphemous, evil statement. This is not a teaching of the Church, just a blasphemous opinion of one individual.

I said MODERN circumcision.  Quit misquoting me for dramatic effect, Demon Harlot.

If you're looking for something more like a Catholic Taliban, you may want to try Suscipe Domine.  They'll ban you for the slightest ruffle of pious feathers there.  Your pearls will be quite safe from clutching.

You know, I really was trying to help you before. But you clearly dont want it. 

Thought perhaps you were reaching out and wanted a friend. I thought wrong.
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#93
CatholicWoman Wrote:Shame on you. You were absolutely referring to OT circumcision. That's why you said "you had a hard time believing a loving god" would do something like that.

Blasphemy. 

And resorting to name calling is always a sure sign you lost the argument. You know what you say has no basis in logic or Biblical history or in Catholic Theology. 

Trying to hurt someone emotionally is a sin too. Trying to ruin someone's reputation is a mortal sin. Shame on you. If you cared about your soul as much as you cared about your penis, you would never say what you did.

May God have mercy on you.

A direct quote from my post on 1/11 at 3:47pm, go see for yourself:

"Modern circumcision is nothing like Abrahamic circumcision.  Modern circumcision is undeniably an invention of Satan."

From http://www.cirp.org/library/cultural/dietzen1/:

Quote:The Morality of Circumcision
BY FATHER JOHN DIETZEN
Q. What is the morality of circumcision? The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that amputations and mutilations performed on innocent people without strictly therapeutic reasons are against the moral law.
Pope Pius XII taught that circumcision is morally permissible if it prevents a disease that cannot be countered any other way.
In spite of these and other church statements against circumcision through the centuries, I'm told there is no strict Catholic rule against the practice today. Why not? No medical association in the world today any longer says circumcision is therapeutic. (Ohio)
A. I'm not sure why not, but the fact is male circumcision generally just doesn't appear very much on the "radar screen" of Catholic moral teaching. Many major moral theology texts don't mention it. A notable except is "Medical Ethics," by Father Edwin Healy SJ (Loyal University Press), who holds that since routine circumcisions are not medically defensible they are morally objectionable.
A few observations may help explain. The practice of circumcision arose thousands of years ago and is prevalent in many cultures around the world. Nearly always it has religious or social significance, signifying full membership in the group and establishing one's social position in the society.
The first divine command to the Jews, for example, was that every male child be circumcised, symbolizing the covenant between God and Abraham (Gn 17).
After the famous confrontation between Paul and other leaders of the early church (Acts 15 and Galatians 2), Christians pretty much rejected the necessity of circumcision for becoming a believer in Christ.
The idea didn't entirely die, however. The theory that circumcision still held some spiritual benefits even for Christians, prompted at least some of the condemnations you speak of. The Council of Vienne (1311), for example, decreed that Christians should not be lured into Judaism or be circumcised for any reason.
The following century, the Council of Florence (1438-1435) ordered "all who glory in the name of Christian not to practice circumcision either before or after baptism, since whether or not they place their hope in it, it cannot possibly be observed without loss of eternal salvation."
Today, while nontherapeutic male circumcision remains common in some places, as a general practice it is forbidden in Catholic teaching for more basic reasons of respect for bodily integrity. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states, "Except when performed for strictly therapeutic medical reasons, directly intended amputations, mutilations and sterilizations performed on innocent persons are against moral law" (N. 2297).
Elective circumcision clearly violates that standard. It is an amputation and mutilation, and, to my knowledge, and as you note, no significant medical group in the world defends it as having any therapeutic value. In 1999 the Council on Scientific Affairs of the American Medical Association stated that neonatal circumcision is nontherapeutic because no disease is present and no therapeutic treatment is required.
Modern Catholic Church documents do not deal explicitly with the morality of elective circumcision. The above basic principles, however, clearly render it immoral. It violates the bodily integrity of infant male children and unnecessarily deprives them of a part of their body that can protect the glans of the penis during infancy and serve at least a sexual function for adults.
My understanding from physicians is that circumcision rarely if ever arises as an ethical consideration. Usually it is requested by the parents for more social reasons such as, it's always been done in our family. In that case, the procedure might be carried out in some places rather routinely, even if it is not what the child needs and no curative or remedial reason renders it ethical.
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#94
Melkite,


You call someone a demon harlot and you expect them to read all that and continue talking to you in a rational manner?

Pfft.

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#95
(01-15-2019, 04:02 PM)Melkite Wrote:
CatholicWoman Wrote:Shame on you. You were absolutely referring to OT circumcision. That's why you said "you had a hard time believing a loving god" would do something like that.

Blasphemy. 

And resorting to name calling is always a sure sign you lost the argument. You know what you say has no basis in logic or Biblical history or in Catholic Theology. 

Trying to hurt someone emotionally is a sin too. Trying to ruin someone's reputation is a mortal sin. Shame on you. If you cared about your soul as much as you cared about your penis, you would never say what you did.

May God have mercy on you.

A direct quote from my post on 1/11 at 3:47pm, go see for yourself:

"Modern circumcision is nothing like Abrahamic circumcision.  Modern circumcision is undeniably an invention of Satan."

From http://www.cirp.org/library/cultural/dietzen1/:

Quote:The Morality of Circumcision
BY FATHER JOHN DIETZEN
Q. What is the morality of circumcision? The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that amputations and mutilations performed on innocent people without strictly therapeutic reasons are against the moral law.
Pope Pius XII taught that circumcision is morally permissible if it prevents a disease that cannot be countered any other way.
In spite of these and other church statements against circumcision through the centuries, I'm told there is no strict Catholic rule against the practice today. Why not? No medical association in the world today any longer says circumcision is therapeutic. (Ohio)
A. I'm not sure why not, but the fact is male circumcision generally just doesn't appear very much on the "radar screen" of Catholic moral teaching. Many major moral theology texts don't mention it. A notable except is "Medical Ethics," by Father Edwin Healy SJ (Loyal University Press), who holds that since routine circumcisions are not medically defensible they are morally objectionable.
A few observations may help explain. The practice of circumcision arose thousands of years ago and is prevalent in many cultures around the world. Nearly always it has religious or social significance, signifying full membership in the group and establishing one's social position in the society.
The first divine command to the Jews, for example, was that every male child be circumcised, symbolizing the covenant between God and Abraham (Gn 17).
After the famous confrontation between Paul and other leaders of the early church (Acts 15 and Galatians 2), Christians pretty much rejected the necessity of circumcision for becoming a believer in Christ.
The idea didn't entirely die, however. The theory that circumcision still held some spiritual benefits even for Christians, prompted at least some of the condemnations you speak of. The Council of Vienne (1311), for example, decreed that Christians should not be lured into Judaism or be circumcised for any reason.
The following century, the Council of Florence (1438-1435) ordered "all who glory in the name of Christian not to practice circumcision either before or after baptism, since whether or not they place their hope in it, it cannot possibly be observed without loss of eternal salvation."
Today, while nontherapeutic male circumcision remains common in some places, as a general practice it is forbidden in Catholic teaching for more basic reasons of respect for bodily integrity. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states, "Except when performed for strictly therapeutic medical reasons, directly intended amputations, mutilations and sterilizations performed on innocent persons are against moral law" (N. 2297).
Elective circumcision clearly violates that standard. It is an amputation and mutilation, and, to my knowledge, and as you note, no significant medical group in the world defends it as having any therapeutic value. In 1999 the Council on Scientific Affairs of the American Medical Association stated that neonatal circumcision is nontherapeutic because no disease is present and no therapeutic treatment is required.
Modern Catholic Church documents do not deal explicitly with the morality of elective circumcision. The above basic principles, however, clearly render it immoral. It violates the bodily integrity of infant male children and unnecessarily deprives them of a part of their body that can protect the glans of the penis during infancy and serve at least a sexual function for adults.
My understanding from physicians is that circumcision rarely if ever arises as an ethical consideration. Usually it is requested by the parents for more social reasons such as, it's always been done in our family. In that case, the procedure might be carried out in some places rather routinely, even if it is not what the child needs and no curative or remedial reason renders it ethical.

That is not the post I was referring to and you know it. And your post of the opinion from one priest. So what? I could find many that say the opposite. The fact of the matter is what you say is not official Church teaching or doctrine, period. 

You should be more concerned about the insults you casually throw about, intentionally hurting those who dont align your warped penis views

I am done taking to you. I hope you find peace and charity and may God have mercy on your soul.  Goodbye.
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#96
(01-15-2019, 04:05 PM)austenbosten Wrote: Melkite,


You call someone a demon harlot and you expect them to read all that and continue talking to you in a rational manner?

Pfft.

Sent from my SM-J737T using Tapatalk

I don't.  I strongly suspect she is a troll at this point.  90% of her posts are on this thread.  CatholicWoman, if you truly aren't, my sincere apologies.

Look, she said I am blaspheming by calling circumcision an invention of Satan.  I clearly said that modern circumcision is an invention of Satan, and in a separate post said I had my doubts that a loving God would require circumcision.  I may be wrong in that doubt, but merely doubting is not blasphemy.  She's conflating what I'm saying to sensationalize my comments to her.  It either is troll behavior, or it is behavior that is coincidentally very similar to trolling.
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#97
(01-15-2019, 04:26 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(01-15-2019, 04:05 PM)austenbosten Wrote: Melkite,


You call someone a demon harlot and you expect them to read all that and continue talking to you in a rational manner?

Pfft.

Sent from my SM-J737T using Tapatalk

I don't.  I strongly suspect she is a troll at this point.  90% of her posts are on this thread.  CatholicWoman, if you truly aren't, my sincere apologies.

Look, she said I am blaspheming by calling circumcision an invention of Satan.  I clearly said that modern circumcision is an invention of Satan, and in a separate post said I had my doubts that a loving God would require circumcision.  I may be wrong in that doubt, but merely doubting is not blasphemy.  She's conflating what I'm saying to sensationalize my comments to her.  It either is troll behavior, or it is behavior that is coincidentally very similar to trolling.

Troll or not your shouldn't call someone a demon harlot.

Look this thread has clearly ran itself aground just as I said it would. All it has done is turn into another ugly sh*tfest because people can't keep their damn heads on withhout blowing gaskets and losing their cool.

I don't think CatholicWoman has shown herself as a troll. We can't assume every newcomer is one, even though the last few have been.

This forum is dying on the verge of becoming a rotted corpse bc we have fewer and fewer ppl participating and newcomers are either here to troll, or get scared off bc they stumble onto the wrong thread were it's nothing more than a Guido knife fight.

Anyhow as I said CatholicWoman would be wise not to peruse this thread and you Melkite would be wise to learn the wise maxim that one catches more flies with honey than vinegar. You cannot stop the circumcision of babies if you go around p*ssing people off. Either you want to end routine infant circumcision, or you just want to world to see what a big effin chip you have on your shoulder.

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#98
(01-15-2019, 04:36 PM)austenbosten Wrote:
(01-15-2019, 04:26 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(01-15-2019, 04:05 PM)austenbosten Wrote: Melkite,


You call someone a demon harlot and you expect them to read all that and continue talking to you in a rational manner?

Pfft.

Sent from my SM-J737T using Tapatalk

I don't.  I strongly suspect she is a troll at this point.  90% of her posts are on this thread.  CatholicWoman, if you truly aren't, my sincere apologies.

Look, she said I am blaspheming by calling circumcision an invention of Satan.  I clearly said that modern circumcision is an invention of Satan, and in a separate post said I had my doubts that a loving God would require circumcision.  I may be wrong in that doubt, but merely doubting is not blasphemy.  She's conflating what I'm saying to sensationalize my comments to her.  It either is troll behavior, or it is behavior that is coincidentally very similar to trolling.

Troll or not your shouldn't call someone a demon harlot.  

Look this thread has clearly ran itself aground just as I said it would.  All it has done is turn into another ugly sh*tfest because people can't keep their damn heads on withhout blowing gaskets and losing their cool.

I don't think CatholicWoman has shown herself as a troll.  We can't assume every newcomer is one, even though the last few have been.

This forum is dying on the verge of becoming a rotted corpse bc we have fewer and fewer ppl participating and newcomers are either here to troll, or get scared off bc they stumble onto the wrong thread were it's nothing more than a Guido knife fight.

Anyhow as I said CatholicWoman would be wise not to peruse this thread and you Melkite would be wise to learn the wise maxim that one catches more flies with honey than vinegar.  You cannot stop the circumcision of babies if you go around p*ssing people off.  Either you want to end routine infant circumcision, or you just want to world to see what a big effin chip you have on your shoulder.

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Can you please tell me how to delete my account? Thanks.
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#99
(01-15-2019, 04:36 PM)austenbosten Wrote: you Melkite would be wise to learn the wise maxim that one catches more flies with honey than vinegar. You cannot stop the circumcision of babies if you go around p*ssing people off. Either you want to end routine infant circumcision, or you just want to world to see what a big effin chip you have on your shoulder.

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I know, I think that to myself all the time.  Easier said than done.  I have good days and I have bad days.  Today wasn't a good day.
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(01-15-2019, 04:05 PM)austenbosten Wrote: Melkite,


You call someone a demon harlot and you expect them to read all that and continue talking to you in a rational manner?

Pfft.

Sent from my SM-J737T using Tapatalk

Wow.

Can you imagine what a non-Catholic would think if they came here and saw this venom?

Melkite, you need to sit down regularly with the Rosary and ask Our Lady to pray for your emotional healing and for God to restore your emotions. You are taking this circumcision thing too far. I get that there's a difference between OT circumcision and the way it's done now, but you're treating it like your life has no more meaning simply because you're missing a foreskin. I don't mean to diminish your problems, but given how much you've over-inflated them with time, there has to be some sort of balance.
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