Koran With Commentary
#1
So in the same way that St Robert Bellarmine really dug down into the theology of protestants in order to truely understand what they believed and how to refute their positions, is there anything like that out there for Islam? I want to better understand the theology of Islam, I want to know what the Koran says and how it is typically interpreted by its adherants and I want to help my naive friends and family understand that it is little more than an evil death cult.
Reply
#2
“The Truth About Muhammad”, by Robert Spencer was decent. He made the case that most Muslims are decent people who don’t follow Mo’s commandments to genocide non Muslims, but he stopped just shy of calling it an evil death cult comparable to the Aztec sacrifices.

Maybe I’m oversimplifying things, but the Koran itself seems to make the case for me: “be nice to people” is superseded by “make non believers live as a lower class” which is in turn superseded by “kill them if they won’t convert.”
-sent by howitzer via the breech.

God's love is manifest in the landscape as in a face.  - John Muir

I want creation to penetrate you with so much admiration that wherever you go, the least plant may bring you clear remembrance of the Creator.  A single plant, a blade of grass, or one speck of dust is sufficient to occupy all your intelligence in beholding the art with which it has been made  - Saint Basil

Heaven is under our feet, as well as over our heads. - Thoreau, Walden
[-] The following 1 user Likes Jeeter's post:
  • Some Guy
Reply
#3
The 'make non believers live as a lower class' only applies to 'People of the Book' Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians. For all others, it's 'convert or die'. Here are some verses from al Quran, for your edification.

[Image: serveimage?url=https:%2F%2Ffreethoughtna...365b8666b2]
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
  “Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog also.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'


[-] The following 1 user Likes jovan66102's post:
  • Some Guy
Reply
#4
Thank you Jovan, but I'm looking for something a bit more scholarly than a meme.
Reply
#5
(01-12-2019, 11:48 PM)Some Guy Wrote: Thank you Jovan, but I'm looking for something a bit more scholarly than a meme.

I assumed so, but if you just pick up a copy of al Quran, you'll find that this is just a small selection of sickening, violent, evil verses. Oh, and be sure to look for the hadiths as well. They are considered authoritative, second only to al Quran.
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
  “Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog also.)” 
St Bernard of Clairvaux

My Blog 'Musings of an Old Curmudgeon'


Reply
#6
Ha!  "Muslim singles" ad banners just popped up and below on the page.  

Anyway, in the March 2018 issue of the New Oxford Review, there's a book review of a translation of Peter the Venerable's Writings Against the Saracens from the mid-12th Century.  He'd commissioned the first Latin translation of the Qur'an and then wished to have a refutation written of the "chief error of errors" which had spread so widely.  It fell to him ultimately, and he included a list of previous heresies refuted by the Fathers, noting that Islam outweighed them altogether. Peter claimed that the Saracens are heretics because they take and reject things from Christianity, such as how Christ was born of the Virgin and was a greater man than even Muhammad but that he was not God.  The followers of the false prophet are not allowed to debate but commanded to "take up arms instead of reason." They believe that the Jews' and Christians' sacred texts were divine but disappeared, were "falsified or corrupted."  While Muhammed called himself a prophet and had Allah do the same, he never uttered a single prohecy.  The Jews believed Moses through his signs and wonders, and those who witnessed Jesus' miracles did, too, but Muhammed had no miracles.  Unfortunately, Abbot Peter died before he could fully complete his work.  

By the way, have you seen the Steve Ray talk on Islam given at Steubenville?  

[-] The following 2 users Like Ambrosiano's post:
  • Augustinian, Some Guy
Reply
#7
(01-12-2019, 11:48 PM)Some Guy Wrote: Thank you Jovan, but I'm looking for something a bit more scholarly than a meme.

There is a fellow on YouTube that calls himself The Apostate Prophet. He used to be a Mohammadan. His stuff if spot on. I know because I studied the false prophets teaching when I was a kid. Check him out.
Reply
#8
The Study Koran is a great resource.  It's mostly spiritual commentary but there are a ton of essays in it that touch upon many different aspects of Islam. 

I also recommend Chittick and Murata's "Vision of Islam". 

While I am not Muslim and never will be,  those two resources are a treasure trove of info,  and since they are not written from a polemical perspective they can help give you a little about Islam from the inside.  

I cannot speak for anyone else but for me,  wherever I am interested in studying a different religion I like to go to more sympathetic or neutral sources first.  Would you learn about Catholicism from Jack Chick pamphlets or other anti Catholic polemical writings?  The same applies to Islam, which is why I personally cannot endorse Robert Spencer. 

Bow
Walk before God in simplicity, and not in subtleties of the mind. Simplicity brings faith; but subtle and intricate speculations bring conceit; and conceit brings withdrawal from God. -Saint Isaac of Syria, Directions on Spiritual Training


"It is impossible in human terms to exaggerate the importance of being in a church or chapel before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. I very seldom repeat what I say. Let me repeat this sentence. It is impossible in human language to exaggerate the importance of being in a chapel or church before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. That sentence is the talisman of the highest sanctity. "Father John Hardon
Reply
#9
In my own studies of Islam both traditional (Sunni and Shia) as well as Sufism I cannot but get the impression Islam is basically a form of NeoPlatonic Monism if that makes sense... Sufism tends to pantheism as well... at least I've never been able to find a way around it's seeming pantheism. Even their idea of the fall is more akin to something out of Origen (prexistent souls "falling" from perfection and seeking to return to the Source etc..) than Biblical. 

There's quite a richness to Islamic theology and philosophy to be honest.  It's got a lot more meat than some might give it credit for, but the religion itself tends toward a regression back to OT style legalisms and monistic pantheism than anything else.  

I found studying it to be very enriching,  but it ultimately reaffirmed my faith in Christ and God as Trinity. 

There is even a Surah in the Quran (66 I think)  where God allegedly rebukes people for questioning whether Mohammed should be allowed to take his slave girl to bed or not.  Just insane stuff from a Christian perspective.  I couldn't get polygamy or the crazy stuff about women as "spoils of war" either.  

Islam has a lot of interesting things within it, but ultimately it's a regression from Christianity, not its completion.  

I also couldn't understand for the life of me how anyone could think that the verse in St. John referring to the Paraclete somehow meant Mohammed. Yes, in Islam the Holy Spirit is said to be either Mohammed or the Archangel Gabriel. Bizarre to say the least!
Walk before God in simplicity, and not in subtleties of the mind. Simplicity brings faith; but subtle and intricate speculations bring conceit; and conceit brings withdrawal from God. -Saint Isaac of Syria, Directions on Spiritual Training


"It is impossible in human terms to exaggerate the importance of being in a church or chapel before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. I very seldom repeat what I say. Let me repeat this sentence. It is impossible in human language to exaggerate the importance of being in a chapel or church before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. That sentence is the talisman of the highest sanctity. "Father John Hardon
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)