Koran With Commentary
#21
On topic, if you want a philosophical look at Islam I've heard good things about Prof. Hossein Nasr.
"The Heart of Jesus is closer to you when you suffer, than when you are full of joy." - St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

'And he shall be as a tree that is planted by the waters, that spreadeth out its roots towards moisture: and it shall not fear when the heat cometh.' - Jeremias 17:8

[Image: 180px-SA_160-Jeremia_op_de_puinhopen_van_Jeruzalem.jpg]
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#22
(07-26-2019, 05:00 PM)JacafamalaRedux Wrote: Well I'm not sure I'm understanding you entirely. Are you saying there are parts of the Bible that are  an error ? Because as Catholics we believe that the Bible is divinely inspired 100% from God at written through the hands of men. There's nothing in there that would be contrary to the deposit of faith that would be impossible.

The Bible contains no error. But it's inspired by God, not written by God. We don't believe, for example, that God told St. Paul every word to write in his epistles like a boss dictating a letter to a secretary. That's not to say that there's error, or that we can dismiss parts of the Bible as just the opinions of their writers (as some try to do with the verses on women).

Muslims believe the angel Gabriel spoke the word of God to Mohammad, who then had it written down. That's not the same as inspiring men to write in their own manner, as with the Bible. And it also suggests a much different attitude towards free will.
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#23
(07-26-2019, 08:21 PM)Paul Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 05:00 PM)JacafamalaRedux Wrote: Well I'm not sure I'm understanding you entirely. Are you saying there are parts of the Bible that are  an error ? Because as Catholics we believe that the Bible is divinely inspired 100% from God at written through the hands of men. There's nothing in there that would be contrary to the deposit of faith that would be impossible.

The Bible contains no error. But it's inspired by God, not written by God. We don't believe, for example, that God told St. Paul every word to write in his epistles like a boss dictating a letter to a secretary. That's not to say that there's error, or that we can dismiss parts of the Bible as just the opinions of their writers (as some try to do with the verses on women).

Muslims believe the angel Gabriel spoke the word of God to Mohammad, who then had it written down. That's not the same as inspiring men to write in their own manner, as with the Bible. And it also suggests a much different attitude towards free will.

Okay thanks, I see what you mean. Not to get too far off track, but while the bible may have certain flavor of the various authors, in the end it's still 100% what God wanted. The Koran isn't given us by good, but by his enemies, I believe.
"Not only are we all in the same boat, but we are all seasick.” --G.K. Chesterton
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#24
(07-26-2019, 05:36 PM)Augustinian Wrote: On topic, if you want a philosophical look at Islam I've heard good things about Prof. Hossein Nasr.

He's pretty good,  as are the late Dr. William Chittick and Henry Corbin. 

There's a GREAT albeit VERY difficult book by Chittick about the Sufi way of Knowledge based on the teachings of Ibn Arabi. It's free on archive.org if I recall.  Highly recommended.  His use of the imagination and how imagination plays a role in spiritual knowledge is fascinating and worth exploring even if only as an intellectual exercise.

There's a richness to this stuff if you dig beyond the polemics.
Walk before God in simplicity, and not in subtleties of the mind. Simplicity brings faith; but subtle and intricate speculations bring conceit; and conceit brings withdrawal from God. -Saint Isaac of Syria, Directions on Spiritual Training


"It is impossible in human terms to exaggerate the importance of being in a church or chapel before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. I very seldom repeat what I say. Let me repeat this sentence. It is impossible in human language to exaggerate the importance of being in a chapel or church before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. That sentence is the talisman of the highest sanctity. "Father John Hardon
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#25
(07-27-2019, 11:31 AM)formerbuddhist Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 05:36 PM)Augustinian Wrote: On topic, if you want a philosophical look at Islam I've heard good things about Prof. Hossein Nasr.

He's pretty good,  as are the late Dr. William Chittick and Henry Corbin. 

There's a GREAT albeit VERY difficult book by Chittick about the Sufi way of Knowledge based on the teachings of Ibn Arabi. It's free on archive.org if I recall.  Highly recommended.  His use of the imagination and how imagination plays a role in spiritual knowledge is fascinating and worth exploring even if only as an intellectual exercise.

There's a richness to this stuff if you dig beyond the polemics.

That sounds like something that will fit in well with my studies of Gnosis (not to be confused with the Gnostic heresy) that I've been dabbling with lately. I'll have to add it to my reading queue. Thanks
"The Heart of Jesus is closer to you when you suffer, than when you are full of joy." - St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

'And he shall be as a tree that is planted by the waters, that spreadeth out its roots towards moisture: and it shall not fear when the heat cometh.' - Jeremias 17:8

[Image: 180px-SA_160-Jeremia_op_de_puinhopen_van_Jeruzalem.jpg]
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#26
(07-29-2019, 05:16 PM)Augustinian Wrote:
(07-27-2019, 11:31 AM)formerbuddhist Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 05:36 PM)Augustinian Wrote: On topic, if you want a philosophical look at Islam I've heard good things about Prof. Hossein Nasr.

He's pretty good,  as are the late Dr. William Chittick and Henry Corbin. 

There's a GREAT albeit VERY difficult book by Chittick about the Sufi way of Knowledge based on the teachings of Ibn Arabi. It's free on archive.org if I recall.  Highly recommended.  His use of the imagination and how imagination plays a role in spiritual knowledge is fascinating and worth exploring even if only as an intellectual exercise.

There's a richness to this stuff if you dig beyond the polemics.

That sounds like something that will fit in well with my studies of Gnosis (not to be confused with the Gnostic heresy) that I've been dabbling with lately. I'll have to add it to my reading queue. Thanks
You're welcome.  PM me with your thoughts on any of this stuff if you ever check it out.
Walk before God in simplicity, and not in subtleties of the mind. Simplicity brings faith; but subtle and intricate speculations bring conceit; and conceit brings withdrawal from God. -Saint Isaac of Syria, Directions on Spiritual Training


"It is impossible in human terms to exaggerate the importance of being in a church or chapel before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. I very seldom repeat what I say. Let me repeat this sentence. It is impossible in human language to exaggerate the importance of being in a chapel or church before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. That sentence is the talisman of the highest sanctity. "Father John Hardon
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#27
I found a nice website with quotes from the saints on Islam.
https://gloria.tv/post/dnVv9zYHyFp82yEqqNGF3Rc9T
Vivat Jesu Rex!
Ave Maria!
Da pacem, Domine. In diebus nostris.

https://8kun.top/christian/index.html
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#28
(01-12-2019, 05:04 PM)Some Guy Wrote: So in the same way that St Robert Bellarmine really dug down into the theology of protestants in order to truely understand what they believed and how to refute their positions, is there anything like that out there for Islam? I want to better understand the theology of Islam, I want to know what the Koran says and how it is typically interpreted by its adherants and I want to help my naive friends and family understand that it is little more than an evil death cult.
This is not an easy task. Islam depends on many other references besides the Koran. Christians believe in a logical God that never changes but Moslems do not. The Koran has God changing his mind and reversing position. Even though the Koran has contradictory teachings they accept that as of Divine origin, and say the later teaching overrides the first. That is what Pope  Benedict was referring to when he mentioned that use of reason with faith in his Regensburg address. Moslems do not have the same interpretations of the verses of the Koran. It all depends on the sheik they follow. It is common that one sheik teaches the opposite of another sheik. They do not see this as a problem. 

I think that the best books are those written by ex Moslims clergy. They are the learned ones that would cover all the contradictions and weaknesses of Islam.

An easy way to refute Islam is the fact that all the writings (eg Hadith and Sira) that they depend upon was written 200 or so years after the fact. Compare that to Christianity where eyewitnesses that lived with Christ or disciples of eyewitnesses gave us the New Testament. 
Also, the qibla (where they have to face when praying) was supposed to be Mecca as per the Koran, and yet many old Mosques have their qibla towards Petra. Mecca in the Koran is described as having a valley with a river and olive trees and being the center of commerce. Yet none of this applies to Mecca but applies to Petra. No one could find Mecca on the old maps of the 6th, 7th and I believe also the 8th century. It was not on the commerce maps of travelers because it was actually out of the way. Petra was a center of commerce. 
The other thing is that they claim the Koran is the same everywhere and has never changed. But the fact is that all the old existing copies are different one from another. They claim that they have the same Koran as the one put together by one of the first Caliphs (forgot his name but I think it was Othman) and that the old Korans in existence are from him (such as the one in Cairo). But carbon dating dates these Korans to much later than the time of this Caliph. 
The oldest Koranic pamphlet they found was the Sanaa one (Yemen). Using UV they found that there is invisible (wiped) Koranic verses under the visible Koranic verses on top. The two are different and they are both different than the Koran they have today. So this shows that the Koran was not dictated by Gabriel but was a work in progress.
There is so much more but this is just an introduction.
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