baptism question
#13
(01-27-2019, 06:16 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(01-27-2019, 05:40 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: Good point. I hope MM sees this and gives his opinion. I assume from the 'she' that it was a Methodist or Episcopalian baptism? If either, she was violating the rules of her Church. I was baptised as a teenager in the Methodist Church and I served countless baptisms in the Episcopal Church, and both Churches' liturgies use Our Lords words verbatim.

Yeah, it was at a UMC church.  Female pastor.  The parents like this church because they had been going to a very progressive, mega-church-like Catholic parish prior to moving to this area.  An inclusive, social justice oriented parish is very important to them.

MM, crap.  My gut told me you were going to tell me that.

So, now my question is, how do I broach this to the parents?  The father was raised in a Baptist missionary family, became mostly agnostic during his early adulthood, and as far as I know, is still basically agnostic, though we never talk about it, so I'm really not sure.  The mother was raised Catholic.  I am godfather to their two eldest children, the oldest three were baptized Catholic and this is baby #4.  The mother has been thinking over the past few years that she does not believe in the real presence in the Eucharist.  Allowance of same-sex marriage is also very important to her and, not as important, prefers that women should be allowed to be ordained.  Beyond that, AFAIK she still believes everything the Catholic Church teaches.  My godchildren are 7 and 5, so I don't believe it would be appropriate for me to be speaking to them directly about the importance of their Catholic baptism and my obligations as their godfather (the younger wouldn't really understand and, while extremely intelligent, I'm not sure how much the elder would understand either).  Also, I'm obviously concerned about the validity of the baptism of the youngest (so I guess EENS is also something they don't believe in, or going UMC would never have been considered).  I know they wouldn't be offended by me bringing it up, but I also don't think they would agree with me, and so probably will do nothing.  Is it more appropriate to wait until their daughter is an adult and bring it up with her directly?

I think you should always take a problem up firstly with the person who created it.

Talk to the minister, and share your concerns. Tell her how you appreciated the words on the importance of the Trinity, but were very concerned that she changed the words of the Baptism from what Jesus taught. You can tell her that Catholics would consider that it is not a Baptism if we don't do what Our Lord instructed. Many Protestant would say the same thing, and you know that the formula that the Church uses is not what she said.

You are worried that there will be serious questions on the child's baptism later, so you want her to explain the error to the parents and re-baptize the child privately. Be gentle, but if she resists tell her that you will have to go to the parents and explain this, because as we know we need Baptism to be saved, and you certain want the child saved.

If the minister balks, then address the parents. Explain that the Catholic teaching as well as the Methodist (to the extent they have a teaching) is that the words of Christ need to be used. The minister did not, and the child needs to be properly baptized. You are concerned. Explain why. If the minister refuses to baptize the child, ask the parents if they want the child baptized, and tell them how to do it properly. One of them pours normal water over the head saying "If you are not baptized, I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." 

You can then witness them conditionally baptizing the child, and then three of you will know for the future.

If the parents balk, find some way of retaining some kind of written proof or testimony to give to the child later when the child can understand it. Write something on it like, in the event of my incapacitation or death give this envelope to X. Valid sacraments and marriage in the future depend on being baptized.

I think going right to the parents removes the minister's responsibility and risks others suffering as a result. Confront the source of the problem.

If you're really stuck, send me a PM and I'll be happy to contact the minister if you can get details.
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Messages In This Thread
baptism question - by Melkite - 01-27-2019, 04:56 PM
RE: baptism question - by Melkite - 01-27-2019, 04:59 PM
RE: baptism question - by jovan66102 - 01-27-2019, 05:09 PM
RE: baptism question - by Melkite - 01-27-2019, 05:33 PM
RE: baptism question - by jovan66102 - 01-27-2019, 05:40 PM
RE: baptism question - by Melkite - 01-27-2019, 06:16 PM
RE: baptism question - by FultonFan - 01-27-2019, 06:43 PM
RE: baptism question - by Melkite - 01-27-2019, 07:43 PM
RE: baptism question - by FultonFan - 01-27-2019, 08:07 PM
RE: baptism question - by MagisterMusicae - 01-27-2019, 08:33 PM
RE: baptism question - by Melkite - 01-27-2019, 09:24 PM
RE: baptism question - by MagisterMusicae - 01-27-2019, 10:17 PM
RE: baptism question - by Melkite - 01-27-2019, 10:44 PM
RE: baptism question - by MagisterMusicae - 01-27-2019, 11:02 PM
RE: baptism question - by MagisterMusicae - 01-27-2019, 05:47 PM
RE: baptism question - by jovan66102 - 01-27-2019, 06:02 PM
RE: baptism question - by Melkite - 01-27-2019, 08:16 PM
RE: baptism question - by Dave Parrott - 01-29-2019, 01:40 PM
RE: baptism question - by MagisterMusicae - 01-29-2019, 05:32 PM



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