Benevacantism, Etc.
(04-27-2021, 03:18 PM)Bataar Wrote: Here's the text from the council:

Wherefore, by divine and catholic faith all those things are to be believed which are contained in the word of God as found in scripture and tradition, and which are proposed by the church as matters to be believed as divinely revealed, whether by her solemn judgment or in her ordinary and universal magisterium.

Take the church's teaching on Guardian Angels for example. There is no solemn document or ex cathedra statement infallibly stating that every human has their own unique Guardian Angel. However, it is church teaching that this is the case and it is heresy to deny it. That teaching, regarding Guardian Angels is binding on all Catholics despite it not being contained in an "infallible" document or papal statement.
Note: "proposed by the church as matters to be believed as divinely revealed". Not everything in the magisterial documents of the Church is "proposed by the church as matters to be believed as divinely revealed".
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(04-27-2021, 03:24 PM)Marmot Wrote:
(04-27-2021, 03:18 PM)Bataar Wrote: Here's the text from the council:

Wherefore, by divine and catholic faith all those things are to be believed which are contained in the word of God as found in scripture and tradition, and which are proposed by the church as matters to be believed as divinely revealed, whether by her solemn judgment or in her ordinary and universal magisterium.

Take the church's teaching on Guardian Angels for example. There is no solemn document or ex cathedra statement infallibly stating that every human has their own unique Guardian Angel. However, it is church teaching that this is the case and it is heresy to deny it. That teaching, regarding Guardian Angels is binding on all Catholics despite it not being contained in an "infallible" document or papal statement.
Note: "proposed by the church as matters to be believed as divinely revealed". Not everything in the magisterial documents of the Church is "proposed by the church as matters to be believed as divinely revealed".
I'm not sure what you're saying here. If something is taught by the church, it falls under the ordinary magisterium. Vatican I states that her ordinary and universal magisterium is to be believed as divinely inspired.
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"Divinely inspired"?  No.  Infallible?  Yes.
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(04-27-2021, 04:17 PM)Bataar Wrote: I'm not sure what you're saying here. If something is taught by the church, it falls under the ordinary magisterium. Vatican I states that her ordinary and universal magisterium is to be believed as divinely inspired.

http://www.catholictreasury.info/quote4.htm
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(04-27-2021, 04:33 PM)ChairmanJoeAintMyPresident Wrote:
(04-27-2021, 04:17 PM)Bataar Wrote: I'm not sure what you're saying here. If something is taught by the church, it falls under the ordinary magisterium. Vatican I states that her ordinary and universal magisterium is to be believed as divinely inspired.

http://www.catholictreasury.info/quote4.htm

CJAMP, that's important enough that it needs to be posted.


The Theological Grades of Certainty

- "Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma"
by Ludwig Ott.
1. The highest degree of certainty appertains to the immediately revealed truths. The belief due to them is based on the authority of God Revealing (fides divina), and if the Church, through its teaching, vouches for the fact it a truth is contained in Revelation, one's certainty is then also based on the authority of the Infallible Teaching Authority of the Church (fides catholica). If Truths are defined by a solemn judgment of faith (definition) of the Pope or of a General Council, they are "de fide definita."
2. Catholic truths or Church doctrines, on which the infallible Teaching Authority of the Church has finally decided, are to be accepted with a faith which is based on the sole authority of the Church (fides ecclesiastica). These truths are as infallibly certain as dogmas proper.
3. A Teaching proximate to Faith (sententia fidei proxima) is a doctrine, which is regarded by theologians generally as a truth of Revelation, but which has not yet been finally promulgated as such by the Church.
4. A Teaching pertaining to the Faith, i.e., theologically certain (sententia ad fidem pertinens, i.e., theologice certa) is a doctrine, on which the Teaching Authority of the Church has not yet finally pronounced, but whose truth is guaranteed by its intrinsic connection with the doctrine of revelation (theological conclusions).
5. Common Teaching (sententia communis) is doctrine, which in itself belongs to the field of free opinions, but which is accepted by theologians generally.
6. Theological opinions of lesser grades of certainty are called probable, more probable, well-founded (sententia probabilis, probabilior, bene fundata). Those which are regarded as being in agreement with the consciousness of Faith of the Church are called pious opinions (sententia pia). The least degree of certainty is possessed by the tolerated opinion (opinio tolerata), which is only weakly founded, but which is tolerated by the Church.
With regard to the doctrinal teaching of the Church it must be well noted that not all the assertions of the Teaching Authority of the Church on questions of Faith and morals are infallible and consequently irrevocable. Only those are infallible which emanate from General Councils representing the whole episcopate and the Papal Decisions Ex Cathedra (cf D 1839). The ordinary and usual form of the Papal teaching activity is not infallible. Further, the decisions of the Roman Congregations (Holy Office, Bible Commission) are not infallible.
Nevertheless normally they are to be accepted with an inner assent which is based on the high supernatural authority of the Holy See (assensus internus supernaturalis, assensus religiosus). The so-called "silentium obsequiosum," that is "reverent silence," does not generally suffice. By way of exception, the obligation of inner agreement may cease if a competent expert, after a renewed scientific investigation of all grounds, arrives at the positive conviction that the decision rests on an error.
Jovan-Marya of the Immaculate Conception Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

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(04-27-2021, 04:17 PM)Bataar Wrote: I'm not sure what you're saying here. If something is taught by the church, it falls under the ordinary magisterium. Vatican I states that her ordinary and universal magisterium is to be believed as divinely inspired.
I am saying that I think your quoted statement doesn't mean what you think it means. The sentence refers explicitly to things "which are proposed by the church as matters to be believed as divinely revealed". The "ordinary and universal magisterium" has a specific meaning, detailed for example here:

http://catholicapologetics.info/modernpr...terium.htm

Among the utterances of an ecumenical council, some belong to the ordinary and universal magisterium (infallible) and some belong to the ordinary magisterium (non-infallible, sometimes called "authentic magisterium"). Hence documents from an ecumenical council are not always infallible, and even those that contain infallible teaching are only infallible in certain limited parts.
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Still Think It Doesn’t Matter Whether or Not Pope Benedict Abdicated?

An excerpt (2 of 6 points provided):

Quote:1. One must always remember that only a pope can abolish a motu proprio issued by the pope. This “duh” principle must always be remembered in our corrupt times. Let’s just spitball, and “speculate”, that Pope Benedict is still the pope. Who cares what a heretical prelate from Argentina says about Summorum Pontificum. His authority to do anything about it is about the same as his authority in my homeowners association: zero. But, for the sake of completeness, let us assume, arguendo for the rest of this post that Bergoglio is definitively and actually the pope.

2. One must always remember what Summorum Pontificum did and did not do, legally speaking, and thus understand the legal effect of abolishing it. Pope Benedict mostly just acknowledged a preexisting fact: the TLM was never abrogated and thus in principle could always have been (and can be) celebrated by any priest without need of any episcopal approval. Abolishing the motu proprio does not change the preexisting fact.

See the above link for the remaining four points.
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(05-30-2021, 09:12 AM)Bonaventure Wrote: Still Think It Doesn’t Matter Whether or Not Pope Benedict Abdicated?

The Argentine pulls a rabbit out of his hat. Presto!

Roman Rite Communities Will Be FORCED Into Novus Ordo
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I wonder if Benedict XVI can renounce his reununciation of the Petrine office and come back?
--BobCatholic 
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BobCatholic Wrote:I wonder if Benedict XVI can renounce his reununciation of the Petrine office and come back?

He's 94 years old, the oldest pope in history.  He is never coming back.
"[I]t is vain to hope to attract souls to God by a bitter zeal."  Pope St. Pius X.

"If anyone deludes himself by thinking he is serving God, when he has not learned to control his tongue, the service he gives is vain.  If he is to offer service pure and unblemished in the sight of God, who is our Father, he must take care of orphans and widows in their need, and keep himself unstained by the world."  James 1:26-27.
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