Papal Primacy vs. Papal Supremacy
#21
Of course, Popes are still kings, having had that role restored in 1929.

As for Pastor Aeternus, it was not promulgated as a response to the loss of temporal power.  It was promulgated before that happened (the Council being suspended when Piedmontese troops took the city). It had been planned earlier as well, of course. It had more to do with the fact that the Church and society no longer had an organic unity. Pastor Aeternus was part of a larger scheme of planned documents that were intended to provide a comprehensive definition of what the Church actually is, what its jurisdiction is, what it has power over and what it does not, and what its relationship to the secular/civil power is in light of all that, as well as the parallel relationship between faith and reason (the Church's infallibility touches on both topics of course).  There were certainly proposals to also address the temporal power of the Pope, given the potential for its loss and what that might mean, but it was part of this larger context on the nature of the Church and ultimately was not included in Pastor Aeternus so as not to confuse the issue.

The temporal power of the Pope has always been seen as a providential (but not absolutely essential) means for maintaining the Church's freedom and independence.
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#22
(04-07-2019, 08:35 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: And in the list of Pontiffs and Kings are:

St Paul I, St Leo III, St Paschal I, St Leo IV, St Nicholas I (the Great), St Adrian III, St Leo IX, St Gregory VII, Bl. Victor III, Bl. Urban II, Bl. Eugene III, Bl. Gregory X, Bl. Innocent V, St Celestine V, Bl. Benedict XI, Bl. Urban V, St Pius V, Bl. Innocent XI, Bl. Pius IX (and there are a few Servants of God as well). That's a lot of Saints and Blesseds to have been straying for a millennium.

I'm playing Devil's Advocate.  You're saying there is nothing wrong with the Pope being a temporal ruler, and offer as proof a list of popes who were also temporal rulers, canonized by the same organization that demanded the pope have temporal authority.  

Are these saints recognized by Orthodoxy?  If not, then why would someone who is investigating Orthodoxy and is unsure that the Catholic Church is the true Church be any more convinced by this than an atheist would be having the Bible quoted to him?
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