Lucifer is the pantheistic god
#1
This is just a speculative stream-of-consciousness that suddenly came to mind, but I thought it would be at least interesting enough to post.

Lucifer, aka Satan, is known as the “prince of this world” by the words of Our Lord. He can also be called the “pantheistic god” in this same sense, and I believe it is evidenced in the false religions inspired by the Evil One and his legions. Many, if not all, of the pagan religions emphasize the natural world as something to be worshipped in-and-of itself. This is most prominent in the cults of the far east under the banner of “Hinduism” where all gods are seen to be manifestations of the one pantheistic god, Brahman. Brahman is said to be everything and anything within the universe, but does not transcend the universe. This leads the Hindus to worship millions of various images of this same being and their total reverence of nature and the natural world. It is a worldly religion through-and-through.

This is furthermore found in the traditions of the Ancient West, with the Greeks and Romans worshipping a variety of specialized gods and goddesses which personify the various elements, weather patterns, or even instruments of the European empires (there’s even a Roman god of door hinges!) All of which stem from the “world soul” which gives life and being to the natural world by working within and through it. Again, a form of pantheism. Native Americans, even, have an idea of a pantheistic god, “the Great Spirit” who is one with the world and all things in it.

Each of these pagan traditions stem from one persona: Lucifer, Satan, the Adversary. When Satan was cast from heaven, he was damned to the world below. Traditionally identified with hell, although Genesis gives information which shows that he and his demons may have been given dominion over the earth itself, as evidenced by the Nephilim. Therefore, one could say that when Lucifer became prince of this world, he also became one with it through punishment of God. This is evidenced by the misguided view of the Manicheans and the gnostics, who saw the material world as evil. God damned Lucifer by casting him from heaven, denying him the beatific vision and hope of reconciliation with the Almighty. Lucifer, as part of his punishment, was made the lord of this world by being made one with it. While this world is not evil in and of itself, through the introduction of sin into the world it may have been tied with the being of Satan. This melding of angelic will and materiality has proven to be a potent force in the fight against the elect. Where temptations not only come from the flesh, but also from the world and the Devil. And rather than personify the world as its own being, it is melded to the will of Lucifer in order to be utilized as a tool for our corruption. This would mean that created things in themselves are not evil, because they come from God, but they are twisted and manipulated into idols by Satan in order to damn mankind. Satan is given, through God, the authority to use this world to tempt us. And all of this stems from the pantheistic leanings of the pagan cults. As their gods have formally been condemned by scripture as demonic, therefore to worship or abide by a pantheistic worldview is to adhere to the worship of Satan.
"The Heart of Jesus is closer to you when you suffer, than when you are full of joy." - St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

“Behold this Heart which has so loved men that It spared nothing, even going so far as to exhaust and consume Itself to prove to them Its love” - Our Lord to St. Margaret Mary
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#2
Interesting thoughts man. 
Its a difficult concept to grasp the battle between good and evil. Our human minds don't have the ability to fully comprehend the relationship between God and Lucifer. 
I don't believe the material world is evil however if you take into account that the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil then I begin to see evil manifest itself within society. Not in the things we create but in the way we treat one another. 

Take the justice system it may seem fine but money controls it's moral compass. My moral compass is based on the objective moral teachings of the bible.
Eg if i had 20 grand to give a lawyer, he would give 5 to the judge and some to the prosecutor and i'll be free. If I have no money I'm going to jail. He's slowly got rid of traditional Christian morals and replacing them with his.

Post Modern Neo Marxism. A fancy term for the Devil i think.

The capitalist systems CEO is Lucifer himself perhaps. He turns people into narcissists with cold hearts.
In a consumer society he can turn people into addicts of all kinds; food, fights, gambling, drugs.
Someone described this society very well on another thread and how Satan fits in to it.

Beware "Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light"  2Corinthians 11:13
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#3
Nice post.

I agree with what is in that post and would add:

When Satan fell, he took a third of the angels in rebellion with him. It must be assumed, that there are, therefore, angels from all the Choirs, not just Cherubim like he was. These angels, turned devils, probably kept a remnant, but severely distorted and profane version of their former selves. I figure that could be why the Hindu Pantheon is so varied in how they present themselves to men.

They all share one thing, these fallen ones: They hate man and just a glance at humanity these days can make that clear. How far have we slipped from what we were? Isn't it this 'slip' away from our divinity of creation, to the shadow of that original, what we have today; a God-like being doing everything evil as if it were something to be gained and sought after? The world reflects the state of the soul of the humans who inhabit her and the souls of our leaders and media 'gods' is decedent and dark to put it mildly. It is no wonder it is so these days, what with where the collective of these groups seeks evil without end, our world would appear as it does.

Our world would be a much different place if we all followed the right path and avoided the left path to evil.
One should have an open mind; open enough that things get in, but not so open that everything falls out
 
A democracy which makes or even effectively prepares for modern, scientific war must necessarily cease to be democratic. No country can be really well prepared for modern war unless it is governed by a tyrant, at the head of a highly trained and perfectly obedient bureaucracy
Huxley
 
The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything  
Einstein
 
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Fiction has to make sense
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#4
(06-22-2019, 08:22 AM)Zedta Wrote: Nice post.

I agree with what is in that post and would add:

When Satan fell, he took a third of the angels in rebellion with him. It must be assumed, that there are, therefore, angels from all the Choirs, not just Cherubim like he was. These angels, turned devils, probably kept a remnant, but severely distorted and profane version of their former selves. I figure that could be why the Hindu Pantheon is so varied in how they present themselves to men.

That's actually what the Church teaches, especially if you listen to what exorcists have to say about the demons. Their office is an inversion of what God originally created them to be. For example, Lucifer, light bearer, is speculated to have been created to be an angel of illumination or knowledge. When he fell, this role inverted and he became the master of darkness and falsity. I firmly believe that all pagan pantheons are expressions of either demons, which seems to be more the case in Eastern traditions, or personifications of natural phenomena which served as a guise for the demons to operate.

Quote:They all share one thing, these fallen ones: They hate man and just a glance at humanity these days can make that clear. How far have we slipped from what we were? Isn't it this 'slip' away from our divinity of creation, to the shadow of that original, what we have today; a God-like being doing everything evil as if it were something to be gained and sought after? The world reflects the state of the soul of the humans who inhabit her and the souls of our leaders and media 'gods' is decedent and dark to put it mildly. It is no wonder it is so these days, what with where the collective of these groups seeks evil without end, our world would appear as it does.

Our world would be a much different place if we all followed the right path and avoided the left path to evil.
You know, last night when I was praying the St. Michael chaplet, I had a realization about the overarching anti-Christian beliefs. I found that they parallel the three sources of temptation: the flesh, the world, and the Devil. Classical Western paganism tends to embody worship of the world, which was de-supernaturalized and integrated into post-Enlightenment materialism. Eastern and meso-American/African tribal religions tend to overtly worship the demonic, or at least openly utilize their preternatural abilities. While our modern world has come to worship the flesh, where everything has been veiled within materialism so that most people worship themselves.

And above all of these stands Lucifer as the "source" of all these evils through his corruption of the world through original sin, placing him as the pantheistic "deity" so common to this unholy "trinity" of anti-Christian beliefs.

Quote:I am Nature, the Mighty Mother,

I am the law: ye have none other.

I am the flower and the dewdrop fresh,
I am the lust in your itching flesh.

I am the battle’s filth and strain,
I am the widow’s empty pain.

I am the sea to smother your breath,
I am the bomb, the falling death.

I am the fact and the crushing reason
To thwart your fantasy’s new-born treason.

I am the spider making her net,
I am the beast with jaws blood-wet.

I am a wolf that follows the sun
And I will catch him ere day be done.

-"Satan speaks" by C.S. Lewis
"The Heart of Jesus is closer to you when you suffer, than when you are full of joy." - St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

“Behold this Heart which has so loved men that It spared nothing, even going so far as to exhaust and consume Itself to prove to them Its love” - Our Lord to St. Margaret Mary
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#5
(06-10-2019, 10:25 PM)Augustinian Wrote: This is just a speculative stream-of-consciousness that suddenly came to mind, but I thought it would be at least interesting enough to post.

Lucifer, aka Satan, is known as the “prince of this world” by the words of Our Lord. He can also be called the “pantheistic god” in this same sense, and I believe it is evidenced in the false religions inspired by the Evil One and his legions. Many, if not all, of the pagan religions emphasize the natural world as something to be worshipped in-and-of itself. This is most prominent in the cults of the far east under the banner of “Hinduism” where all gods are seen to be manifestations of the one pantheistic god, Brahman. Brahman is said to be everything and anything within the universe, but does not transcend the universe. This leads the Hindus to worship millions of various images of this same being and their total reverence of nature and the natural world. It is a worldly religion through-and-through.

This is furthermore found in the traditions of the Ancient West, with the Greeks and Romans worshipping a variety of specialized gods and goddesses which personify the various elements, weather patterns, or even instruments of the European empires (there’s even a Roman god of door hinges!) All of which stem from the “world soul” [mmm... I don't think the Roman/Greek pantheon can really be called pantheistic.] which gives life and being to the natural world by working within and through it. Again, a form of pantheism. Native Americans, even, have an idea of a pantheistic god, “the Great Spirit” who is one with the world and all things in it.

Each of these pagan traditions stem from one persona: Lucifer, Satan, the Adversary. When Satan was cast from heaven, he was damned to the world below. Traditionally identified with hell, although Genesis gives information which shows that he and his demons may have been given dominion over the earth itself, as evidenced by the Nephilim. Therefore, one could say that when Lucifer became prince of this world, he also became one with it through punishment of God [what does this mean?]. This is evidenced by the misguided view of the Manicheans and the gnostics [I'm confused - are you saying the heresy of the Manicheans is kind of true?], who saw the material world as evil. God damned Lucifer by casting him from heaven, denying him the beatific vision and hope of reconciliation with the Almighty. Lucifer, as part of his punishment, was made the lord of this world by being made one with it [again, not sure what this means]. While this world is not evil in and of itself, through the introduction of sin into the world it may have been tied with the being of Satan [again, I have no idea what this actually means. How is an introduction tied into the being of Satan? What do you mean by "being"? Do you mean Satan's ens (as opposed to his esse?)? And what exactly is the "introduction of sin"? Isn't it just man fixing his will on something other than God's will? Then... to say that an act of man's will is "tied with the being of Satan" is a bit misleading. This doesn't reveal an ontological truth (as implied by the use of the word "being"), but rather a moral one.]. This melding of angelic will and materiality [How can a will be "melded" with "materiality"? Isn't it rather that fallen angels use material things? But that's not the same as being one with them.] has proven to be a potent force in the fight against the elect. Where temptations not only come from the flesh, but also from the world and the Devil. And rather than personify the world as its own being, it is melded to the will of Lucifer in order to be utilized as a tool for our corruption [The bolded part of this sentence makes sense to me]. This would mean that created things in themselves are not evil, because they come from God, but they are twisted and manipulated into idols by Satan in order to damn mankind [this part is true, but I think a bit imprecise. Because Satan uses the things, but what makes them idols is not his will but rather man's will when he (man) places them above the True God.]. Satan is given, through God, the authority to use this world to tempt us. And all of this stems from the pantheistic leanings of the pagan cults. As their gods have formally been condemned by scripture as demonic, therefore to worship or abide by a pantheistic worldview is to adhere to the worship of Satan.

Sorry if this wasn't the best way to do this. I didn't want to chop your writing into bits, because a lot of it needs to be read in context... so I commented/asked questions within the text instead.
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#6
(06-22-2019, 09:20 AM)Augustinian Wrote: You know, last night when I was praying the St. Michael chaplet, I had a realization about the overarching anti-Christian beliefs. I found that they parallel the three sources of temptation: the flesh, the world, and the Devil. Classical Western paganism tends to embody worship of the world, which was de-supernaturalized and integrated into post-Enlightenment materialism. Eastern and meso-American/African tribal religions tend to overtly worship the demonic, or at least openly utilize their preternatural abilities. While our modern world has come to worship the flesh, where everything has been veiled within materialism so that most people worship themselves.

And above all of these stands Lucifer as the "source" of all these evils through his corruption of the world through original sin, placing him as the pantheistic "deity" so common to this unholy "trinity" of anti-Christian beliefs.

Hm! This is interesting.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts in this thread.
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#7
(06-24-2019, 05:52 PM)Filiolus Wrote: Sorry if this wasn't the best way to do this. I didn't want to chop your writing into bits, because a lot of it needs to be read in context... so I commented/asked questions within the text instead.

That's okay, like I originally said, it was more of a stream-of-consciousness than a serious theological look at pantheism. I'll try an answer some of your questions though.

Quote:[mmm... I don't think the Roman/Greek pantheon can really be called pantheistic.
True. In regard to them, I was speaking more from the neo-Platonic conception of the world soul or divine mind of the “one.”

Quote: [I'm confused - are you saying the heresy of the Manicheans is kind of true?]
No. I’m saying that Satan’s “oneness” with the world is that he can now only operate through the material world rather than through grace/spirit like the angels. The Manicheans are wrong in saying the world is inherently evil, but due to the influence of Lucifer through worldly means it takes on a characteristic that can be misconstrued as an innate evil in material creation itself.

Quote:[again, I have no idea what this actually means. How is an introduction tied into the being of Satan? What do you mean by "being"? Do you mean Satan's ens(as opposed to his esse?)? And what exactly is the "introduction of sin"? Isn't it just man fixing his will on something other than God's will? Then... to say that an act of man's will is "tied with the being of Satan" is a bit misleading. This doesn't reveal an ontological truth (as implied by the use of the word "being"), but rather a moral one.]
I believe I was trying to base it on the negation of a good that is evil itself. When Lucifer committed his sin, he negated some aspect of God’s goodness in him and that spread throughout the ranks of the angels. When he fell, the only thing he is capable of doing is corrupting God’s goodness therefore introducing sin into material creation by influencing Eve to disobey God. So yes, the usage of “being” was incorrect.

Quote: [How can a will be "melded" with "materiality"? Isn't it rather that fallen angels usematerial things? But that's not the same as being one with them.]
My perspective on it, within the context of my post, has more to do with the material being the only way for the demons to spread corruption through creation. That being said, you’re right in pointing out that error.

Anyway, all of this was speculation. Nothing I seriously believe. I think my reply that you quoted above is a much more coherent view.
"The Heart of Jesus is closer to you when you suffer, than when you are full of joy." - St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

“Behold this Heart which has so loved men that It spared nothing, even going so far as to exhaust and consume Itself to prove to them Its love” - Our Lord to St. Margaret Mary
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#8
I made a dumb mistake - should be ens and essentia, not esse. Definitely cringe worthy.

Thanks for responding!
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