Our Lady of Fatima and praying the rosary daily
#1
A question crossed my mind this evening when I was shopping for a fifteen-decade rosary; What exactly did Our Lady mean when she requested that we pray the rosary daily? I pray one five-decade rosary every morning, maybe a second one in the evening if I have the grace, and have typically viewed that as fulfillment of Our Lady's request.

But, looking back at her message to the children at Fatima:

Quote:"I am Our Lady of the Rosary. Continue to say the Rosary every day." October 13th, 1917

Our Lady doesn't really specify whether she wants the full fifteen decades or if five will suffice. She only briefly mentions the number of decades in her message to Sister Lucy in regard to the First Saturdays:

Quote:You at least try to console Me and announce in My name that I promise to assist at the moment of death, with all the graces necessary for salvation, all those who, on the First Saturday of five consecutive months shall confess, receive Holy Communion, recite five decades of the Rosary, and keep Me company for fifteen minutes while meditating on the fifteen mysteries of the Rosary, with the intention of making Reparation to Me. - December 10th, 1925

This doesn't really clarify things for me personally, because the five decades are mentioned specifically under the context of the First Saturdays.
Further, Fr. Paul Stretenovic on TIA goes into detail regarding Our Lady's promise for praying the rosary:
Quote:The first reason is that when the Virgin Mary asked us at Fatima to pray the Rosary every day, she was not asking for five decades. She was asking for fifteen. When Our Lady says “Pray the Rosary,” she is speaking of what has been termed her Psalter, a word referring to the Book of Psalms, which contains one hundred and fifty Psalms of David. From the time of St. Dominic, “Mary’s Psalter” was the 150 Hail Marys. In 1569 St. Pope Pius V, himself a Dominican, issued an apostolic letter establishing the fifteen-decades as the official Church-authorized Rosary.
https://www.traditioninaction.org/religi...novic.html

Given the establishment of fifteen decades as the authorized rosary by the Church, and its correspondence to the 150 psalms due to its identification as "Mary's Psalter," tells me that fifteen is what Our Lady requested at Fatima.

That is not to say that doing five is less pleasing to Our Mother, but Fr. Stretenovic gives a pretty good argument in the penitential aspect of praying the full rosary every day:
Quote:At Judgment, God does not simply look at the “big picture,” or the term coined by one progressivist theologian, Joseph Fuchs, our “fundamental option.” He examines every single decision we have made in our lifetime, and demands an account for each one. Even if we die in a state of grace, our Purgatory can be very long, especially for the mortal sins forgiven in the tribunal of God’s mercy, but not fully expiated.
Plenary indulgences, it is true, can be obtained by doing much less, but actually receiving that indulgence presupposes a detachment from sin that most of us do not yet possess. If we are faithful to praying the whole Rosary every day, in one year’s time we would have prayed 365 Rosaries to cover for a multitude of sins. That’s not too bad for a year’s work.

I was already deciding to try and pray a full fifteen decades every day, simply because I need to work on meditation and also out of love for the rosary. I was more curious as to anyone else's thoughts regarding the rosary and Fatima.
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'And he shall be as a tree that is planted by the waters, that spreadeth out its roots towards moisture: and it shall not fear when the heat cometh.' - Jeremias 17:8

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#2
Just a general disclaimer, I have grown to distrust TIA immensely after their outright slander of Archbishop Lefebvre.

That being said, I haven't heard from any other promoters of Fatima that the Blessed Mother demanded 15 decades. I think that the minimum asked is 5 decades, about 20 minutes a day.

Quote:The first reason is that when the Virgin Mary asked us at Fatima to pray the Rosary every day, she was not asking for five decades. She was asking for fifteen. When Our Lady says “Pray the Rosary,” she is speaking of what has been termed her Psalter, a word referring to the Book of Psalms, which contains one hundred and fifty Psalms of David. From the time of St. Dominic, “Mary’s Psalter” was the 150 Hail Marys. In 1569 St. Pope Pius V, himself a Dominican, issued an apostolic letter establishing the fifteen-decades as the official Church-authorized Rosary.

There is a lot in this quote which needs sourcing. Firstly, I don't know if Father is correct in his assertion that Our Lady asked for 15 decades. I've never heard that before from the Fatima message. However, it is certainly better to do 15 decades in place of five (presupposing that one is doing it meditatively and not out of rote memorization.)

Assuming that you haven't read the Secret of the Rosary, there is a passage therein where Saint Louis does talk about how the rosary was prayed meditating on all the mysteries.

I have prayed the whole Rosary for about a month and then on and off for a couple of weeks here and there. It is better but you need to prioritize time for it. Depending on how fast you say the Ave and whether or not you use meditations, this could take 45 minutes to 1 hour.

Personally, given the promises attached to the Rosary, I think we should all have a greater devotion to it. Right now I am away from the Sacraments (I mention this as an aside, not because I need advice, just maybe prayers.) and the daily Rosary is about all that really keeps me from totally falling to the wayside. This is probably the third time this has happened, so yes, the Rosary keeps people in the Church.
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#3
(06-18-2019, 07:40 PM)Alphonse il Segundo Wrote: Just a general disclaimer, I have grown to distrust TIA immensely after their outright slander of Archbishop Lefebvre.

That being said, I haven't heard from any other promoters of Fatima that the Blessed Mother demanded 15 decades. I think that the minimum asked is 5 decades, about 20 minutes a day.

Quote:The first reason is that when the Virgin Mary asked us at Fatima to pray the Rosary every day, she was not asking for five decades. She was asking for fifteen. When Our Lady says “Pray the Rosary,” she is speaking of what has been termed her Psalter, a word referring to the Book of Psalms, which contains one hundred and fifty Psalms of David. From the time of St. Dominic, “Mary’s Psalter” was the 150 Hail Marys. In 1569 St. Pope Pius V, himself a Dominican, issued an apostolic letter establishing the fifteen-decades as the official Church-authorized Rosary.

There is a lot in this quote which needs sourcing. Firstly, I don't know if Father is correct in his assertion that Our Lady asked for 15 decades. I've never heard that before from the Fatima message. However, it is certainly better to do 15 decades in place of five (presupposing that one is doing it meditatively and not out of rote memorization.)

Assuming that you haven't read the Secret of the Rosary, there is a passage therein where Saint Louis does talk about how the rosary was prayed meditating on all the mysteries.

I have prayed the whole Rosary for about a month and then on and off for a couple of weeks here and there. It is better but you need to prioritize time for it. Depending on how fast you say the Ave and whether or not you use meditations, this could take 45 minutes to 1 hour.

Personally, given the promises attached to the Rosary, I think we should all have a greater devotion to it. Right now I am away from the Sacraments (I mention this as an aside, not because I need advice, just maybe prayers.) and the daily Rosary is about all that really keeps me from totally falling to the wayside. This is probably the third time this has happened, so yes, the Rosary keeps people in the Church.

I'm sorry to hear that you're away from the Sacraments. I've noticed a lot of strong criticism of Archbishop Lefebvre and the Society from TIA, but I still appreciate a lot of their content.

As for the Secret of the Rosary, no I have not yet read it, but it makes sense that St. Louis would mention all of the mysteries. As the complete rosary is all 150 Ave's with the fifteen mysteries. But that's where my confusion with the Fatima message lies, in lack of specifics regarding the fulfillment of "praying the rosary." I've even heard some "conservative Catholics" state that only being able to manage a decade per day is sufficient. So there's a lot of grey area in fulfillment of the Fatima devotion.

I noticed you highlighted Fr's reference to the Psalms as needing clarification. This connection has commonly been made over the centuries between the Old Covenant recitation of the Psalms and the rosary. Vox even mentions the connection on her page about the rosary: https://www.fisheaters.com/rosary.html And then the reference from Fr about St. Pope Pius V is regarding Consueverunt Romani which briefly establishes the practice of the rosary as propagated by the method of St. Dominic. http://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius05/p5consue.htm

All that said, yes, he should have cited his sources, although most of what he wrote is opinion anyway from the angle of good spiritual practice.
"The Heart of Jesus is closer to you when you suffer, than when you are full of joy." - St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

'And he shall be as a tree that is planted by the waters, that spreadeth out its roots towards moisture: and it shall not fear when the heat cometh.' - Jeremias 17:8

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#4
My wife and I pray 5 mysteries a day. If we did all 15 I can't imagine we would have much time for any other types of prayer.
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#5
(06-18-2019, 08:13 PM)Augustinian Wrote: As for the Secret of the Rosary, no I have not yet read it, but it makes sense that St. Louis would mention all of the mysteries. As the complete rosary is all 150 Ave's with the fifteen mysteries. But that's where my confusion with the Fatima message lies, in lack of specifics regarding the fulfillment of "praying the rosary." I've even heard some "conservative Catholics" state that only being able to manage a decade per day is sufficient. So there's a lot of grey area in fulfillment of the Fatima devotion.

I noticed you highlighted Fr's reference to the Psalms as needing clarification. This connection has commonly been made over the centuries between the Old Covenant recitation of the Psalms and the rosary. Vox even mentions the connection on her page about the rosary: https://www.fisheaters.com/rosary.html And then the reference from Fr about St. Pope Pius V is regarding Consueverunt Romani which briefly establishes the practice of the rosary as propagated by the method of St. Dominic. http://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius05/p5consue.htm

All that said, yes, he should have cited his sources, although most of what he wrote is opinion anyway from the angle of good spiritual practice.

I would say that a third is all that is requested. From the cited passage above about the 5 First Saturdays, internal consistency would seem to point to five minimum.  

For your "conservative" Catholics out there who think they can get away with one decade a day: just admit that you are lazy and don't want to. 

And I have heard the comparison before of the Rosary to the Psalter. So, that is not the point of confusion. My question is where is Father getting the idea that you need to say 15 decades a day? Even then, the analogy doesn't carry. Most traditional priests, Eastern or Western, with the notable exception of the Ethiopians, will not say the whole Psalter in a typical day. So, will Father also be advocating praying the entire Psalter each day? 

At the end of the day, Fatima is confusing.
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#6
(06-18-2019, 09:35 PM)Alphonse il Segundo Wrote: At the end of the day, Fatima is confusing.

Yeah, as much as I love the apparition, I completely agree.
"The Heart of Jesus is closer to you when you suffer, than when you are full of joy." - St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

'And he shall be as a tree that is planted by the waters, that spreadeth out its roots towards moisture: and it shall not fear when the heat cometh.' - Jeremias 17:8

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#7
(06-18-2019, 10:04 PM)Augustinian Wrote:
(06-18-2019, 09:35 PM)Alphonse il Segundo Wrote: At the end of the day, Fatima is confusing.

Yeah, as much as I love the apparition, I completely agree.

In speaking of the devotion of the 5 first Saturdays, Sister Lucia reported in her memoirs that the Blessed Virgin told her "“rezarem um terco” in her native Portuguese, which is "pray a third," referring to 5 decades of the Rosary.


"— Olha, minha filha, o Meu Coração cercado de espinhos que os homens ingratos a todos os momentos Me cravam, com blasfémias e ingratidões. Tu, ao menos, vê de Me consolar e diz que todos aqueles que durante 5 meses, no primeiro sábado, se confessarem, recebendo a Sagrada Comunhão, rezarem um Terço e Me fizerem 15 minutos de companhia, meditando nos 15 mistérios do Rosário, com o fim de Me desagravar, Eu prometo assistir-lhes, na hora da morte, com todas as graças necessárias para a salvação dessas almas."
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#8
I think it was Fr. Ripperger who kind of explained it as saying that the minimum amount of prayer to satisfy Divine Justice is 20 minutes... and what do you know, 1/3 of the Rosary is around 20 minutes especially if you add in additional prayers at the beginning and end, it can easily stretch to 30.
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#9
(06-19-2019, 10:38 AM)GangGreen Wrote: I think it was Fr. Ripperger who kind of explained it as saying that the minimum amount of prayer to satisfy Divine Justice is 20 minutes... and what do you know, 1/3 of the Rosary is around 20 minutes especially if you add in additional prayers at the beginning and end, it can easily stretch to 30.

What happens if you pray for 19 minutes and 37 seconds?  Does God's wrath button not get turned off?
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#10
(06-19-2019, 10:38 AM)GangGreen Wrote: I think it was Fr. Ripperger who kind of explained it as saying that the minimum amount of prayer to satisfy Divine Justice is 20 minutes... and what do you know, 1/3 of the Rosary is around 20 minutes especially if you add in additional prayers at the beginning and end, it can easily stretch to 30.

Pretty sure there's not a time requirement for that, we certainly owe God prayer, but I think it's silly to put that in a number of minutes.
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