Typical!
#51
(07-10-2019, 06:45 PM)Fontevrault Wrote: Yes, well, that store does not sell clothing but the head wraps - which are cool by the way.

Under specialty items they sell layering tees.  That way you can just wear a regular blouse or top with no hassle.
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#52
i got lost in the videos....  Big Grin  wow!  Thanks so much for sharing!
Adoption, Home School, and Catholic Family Life:  StolenPears.com
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#53
(07-10-2019, 07:09 PM)Fontevrault Wrote: i got lost in the videos....  Big Grin  wow!  Thanks so much for sharing!

You’re welcome.  Cheers.
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#54
(07-10-2019, 01:19 AM)Miriam_M Wrote:
(07-09-2019, 09:51 PM)divinesilence80 Wrote: In the spirit of honesty, is the bold really true? 
I'm not sure why you're questioning my "honesty."  I write what I mean, and I'm saying that every Catholic is required by the Church and by the Commandments to develop self-discipline when it comes to the Capital Sin of Lust.  It's not an option.  Men.  Women.  The fact that women tend to be tempted by different "stimulants" than men are is neither here nor there.  Men may be more tempted by visual images because of the way they are biologically programmed, but that programming does not excuse indulgence of lust, any more than women's propensity to gossip excuses us from developing self-control of the tongue and of our curiosity, not to mention mastery over the Capital Sin of Envy.  Temptations do not give Catholics license to indulge in disordered behavior.  I know that at my parish, temptations arise all the time to indulge in Pride, Envy, and uncharitable triumphalism by contributing to gossip.  Women don't have the "right" to be free from such temptations only in a church environment, just as men don't have the right to be free from all visual temptations in the same environment. Men and women, deal with it.  We are commanded to resist temptation and are given grace opportunities for that purpose.  The grace is always available to resist temptation.  What the Muslims do to hide women's female form says more about what low expectations they have of men than anything else.

A normally but modestly clothed female form still looks -- hello -- feminine.  Catholic women have never been commanded to hide their forms so as not to be recognizably female.  Any man or woman who goes around ordering Catholic women to wear formless clothes is out of line; there's no such dogma.  And any man who claims he can't control himself or that it is unjust for women to look like actual (modest) women at church is a man with a problem. He is the one who would need to work on himself.

I don't wish to respond to your graphic language, nor do I believe that my reply invited such language.  And I don't really want to discuss off-topic matters such as prostitution or different time periods.

I think you should go back and re-read my post if that is what you got from it. I did say that dealing with a visual attraction is our (as men) / my cross to bear. Nor did I say you need to don a burka to go to Church. All I was trying to get at was I don't think women really understand (nor maybe even care) about how their appearance can affect others (other women included) on a life;s journey beyond what makes them feel "empowered."

My "graphic description" was meant to drive the point home that since women don't avidly seek out an experience of male sexuality, I don't think they really understand what that temptation feels like. All temptations are different. Gossip is never a good thing, but sexual attraction does have a positive aspect to it. Sorting out a positive sexual attraction from a sinful one is not the same as saying "some gossip is ok but other gossip isn't." THAT is frustrating part and when you have biology working against you its compounded. Gossip is not really biological or natural. It is a side-effect of situations we put ourselves in and choose to remain in.
Local anti-feminist.....if you think women deserve special treatment without any accountability for their actions expect to hear from me!
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#55
(07-10-2019, 04:02 PM)Fontevrault Wrote:
(07-08-2019, 03:31 AM)Credidi Propter Wrote: There are plenty of dresses out there that go to the ankles and down the arm to the wrists if that’s what you want. There are plenty of those same dresses that don’t have a plunging neckline. I’ve seen plenty of women’s clothes that are attractive, yet modest and inexpensive. I swear it’s like some women go out of their way to be as plain as possible. Women like that do not look modest, they look like they are ashamed of themselves for simply being.
OK.  Here's a thought experiment that may be fruitful and even fun.  Guys, you say you never get to "win" the modesty argument in your families, that when you do see a family of modestly dressed ladies show up to church they look like they are straight off the set of Little House; fair enough.  I agree: "Frump Fest" is an issue at TLM parishes.  But if I were honest, I have a hard time finding things that look nice, modern, and feminine while also being modest.  I would swear that fashion designers think all women are prostitutes.  So, at least this lady needs some help.  That leads me to the challenge.

You win!  You get to choose an outfit or two and give us your opinions as to what you like - and why.
What would you have us wear?  I am genuinely curious and am not doing this to be nasty.

Credidi, you say you know where to find these mythical clothes that are at once modest, nice looking and inexpensive.  Where?  Help a girl out!  I'm 5'7" tall and a size 10.  The majority of the stuff I find online that's inexpensive is made for a Chinese woman who is around 5'2".  So, what's modest for her is either immodestly short on me or the proportions are wrong.  Do I even need to mention the differences in proportion in terms of hips and bust?  American and European women are way more curvy than our oriental counterparts.

I see women dressed immodestly at Mass all the time, but am in absolutely no position to judge.  I have been one of those women who wears (GASP!) pants to Mass.  Now, I don't do it to be irreverent but rather because things may have gone so wrong that morning that those were the only clothes I could manage and still be (a) clean and (b) on time for Mass.  Have pity on me and give me some pointers because there are days when it's all I can do to half sleep walk into Mass.  The win for the day may be that all my children are clean, dressed appropriately, and we are all there.

Oh, oh!!1 [Jaca raising her hand and squirming!] Some linques to add to the perennial issue that gets the trad world going...

This place has a bunch of stuff. They also have a solution to an existing wardrobe, which is layering.

Jacacheep cheep likes some stuff on Amazon, too. Oooh, and this. That's just my fave style. I like the boho look. They have a plethora of stuff they offer and you don't even have to go wandering aimlessly through the malls. Gotta love that.
"Not only are we all in the same boat, but we are all seasick.” --G.K. Chesterton
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#56
https://us.shein.com/Colorblock-Stripe-S...-1727.html

https://us.shein.com/Zip-Front-Drawstrin...-1773.html

https://us.shein.com/Color-Block-Split-S...-1727.html

https://us.shein.com/Self-Tie-Pleated-Mi...-1727.html

Window shopping, guys. Wink
"Not only are we all in the same boat, but we are all seasick.” --G.K. Chesterton
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#57
(07-11-2019, 12:27 PM)divinesilence80 Wrote:
(07-10-2019, 01:19 AM)Miriam_M Wrote:
(07-09-2019, 09:51 PM)divinesilence80 Wrote: In the spirit of honesty, is the bold really true? 
I'm not sure why you're questioning my "honesty."  I write what I mean, and I'm saying that every Catholic is required by the Church and by the Commandments to develop self-discipline when it comes to the Capital Sin of Lust.  It's not an option.  Men.  Women.  The fact that women tend to be tempted by different "stimulants" than men are is neither here nor there.  Men may be more tempted by visual images because of the way they are biologically programmed, but that programming does not excuse indulgence of lust, any more than women's propensity to gossip excuses us from developing self-control of the tongue and of our curiosity, not to mention mastery over the Capital Sin of Envy.  Temptations do not give Catholics license to indulge in disordered behavior.  I know that at my parish, temptations arise all the time to indulge in Pride, Envy, and uncharitable triumphalism by contributing to gossip.  Women don't have the "right" to be free from such temptations only in a church environment, just as men don't have the right to be free from all visual temptations in the same environment. Men and women, deal with it.  We are commanded to resist temptation and are given grace opportunities for that purpose.  The grace is always available to resist temptation.  What the Muslims do to hide women's female form says more about what low expectations they have of men than anything else.

A normally but modestly clothed female form still looks -- hello -- feminine.  Catholic women have never been commanded to hide their forms so as not to be recognizably female.  Any man or woman who goes around ordering Catholic women to wear formless clothes is out of line; there's no such dogma.  And any man who claims he can't control himself or that it is unjust for women to look like actual (modest) women at church is a man with a problem. He is the one who would need to work on himself.

I don't wish to respond to your graphic language, nor do I believe that my reply invited such language.  And I don't really want to discuss off-topic matters such as prostitution or different time periods.

I think you should go back and re-read my post if that is what you got from it. I did say that dealing with a visual attraction is our (as men) / my cross to bear. Nor did I say you need to don a burka to go to Church. All I was trying to get at was I don't think women really understand (nor maybe even care) about how their appearance can affect others (other women included) on a life;s journey beyond what makes them feel "empowered."

My "graphic description" was meant to drive the point home that since women don't avidly seek out an experience of male sexuality, I don't think they really understand what that temptation feels like. All temptations are different. Gossip is never a good thing, but sexual attraction does have a positive aspect to it. Sorting out a positive sexual attraction from a sinful one is not the same as saying "some gossip is ok but other gossip isn't." THAT is frustrating part and when you have biology working against you its compounded. Gossip is not really biological or natural. It is a side-effect of situations we put ourselves in and choose to remain in.
No,I don't need to reread anything.  I understood it the first time and found the language distasteful and unnecessary.

Women are programmed to talk, to talk with others, and to focus on details -- also, logically, to be curious about others because it's in our nature to care about others before others even make their needs, pain, crises known to us.  It's our nature, not the nature of men.  When we do not exercise self-mastery in that talk, we engage in disordered behavior (such as morbid curiosity and idle speculation) because we are regularly tempted to it, both within ourselves and from external sources.  This is called moving from ordered biological impulses to disordered ones. Men have different temptations, also from within themselves and from external sources.  Catholicism demands self-control over those biologically determined impulses, and neither sex has any right to expect, let alone insist on, freedom from their own disorders in a Catholic environment.
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