Erick Ybarra vs. Jay Dyer
#1
The behavior of people on both sides both in the comments and the chat room was disgusting. Jay's behavior in particular was shameful. The use of insults only demonstrates a lack of charity and his fans are just as bad, if not worse. Jay uploaded this video on his own channel. You should see the comments there. His fans truly have a cult-like mentality (and I realize the hypocrisy of me saying when condemning the use of insults).

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#2
I couldn't watch it. Erick is a friend and a great guy. He does not think or speak quickly, but deeply, like me. Dyer acted like a total jerk in this video. Some speculated that he was on drugs. He does not deserve to be on this show. Perhaps a mediated interaction, where he writes something, and the show hosts talk about it, he responds, and so on.

There are other good shows on the Reason and Theology channel. They recently had Dr. Jared Goff on, where he talked about S Bonaventure and Bl John Duns Scotus in relation to Palamism. I lean towards the Franciscan school, and highly recommend that video.
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#3
I recently tried to listen to a Jay Dyer video on the essence-energies distinction and he basically spent most of it laying into Divine Simplicity and St Augustine and saying how "wrong" he was about basically everything yet failing to prove just what exactly Augustine was wrong about. He didn't even satisfactorily express a counter argument to Divine Simplicity. I mean, Dyer has an impressive knowledge of the Fathers and philosophy, but he does not seem to utilize it in any real coherent manner.
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#4
What an absolute train wreck. Debating Jay in real time is a fool's errand (and not because Jay is some unbeatable debate "god.") His basic strategy is to quickly throw 10 points at you. As soon as you correct him on the first point, he ignores it and spits out 10 more points, all the while insulting you for not addressing the other 19 points. It's an absolute waste of time and I wish Erick wouldn't have engaged him this way. He also didn't look particularly great in this format, but to his credit he did seem to really pound Jay on a number of historical points. Also, I don't think Jay was on drugs. I think the issue is Jay is on the autism spectrum and just gets worked up into a frenzy if someone doesn't see things his way or doesn't understand the point he's trying to make. Catholics in the social media world need to simply step away from Jay and not engage. It isn't productive and it's embarrassing for all sides.
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#5
Just wanted to say that I am in 100% agreement with all of you. It was disturbing. I won't comment further except to say Jay is obviously in need of prayers. His followers as well. They are extremely juvenile and crude. I thought Erick was very respectful and professional and showed a lot of patience and restraint.
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#6
(08-08-2019, 09:15 PM)PorphyriosK Wrote: Just wanted to say that I am in 100% agreement with all of you.  It was disturbing.  I won't comment further except to say Jay is obviously in need of prayers.  His followers as well.  They are extremely juvenile and crude.  I thought Erick was very respectful and professional and showed a lot of patience and restraint.

You're certainly right that Jay is in need of our prayers (Catholic and Orthodox alike.) I have a few Orthodox friends who just cringe whenever Jay is brought up. It's too bad that such a venerable and serious tradition such as Orthodoxy is saddled with such a flawed representative on social media. Most Americans have no real awareness of the Christian East, and I suspect many of Jay's fans had never even heard of Orthodoxy before stumbling on to his videos. His fans are quite zealous, but I would bet that for every fan he gains he turns off another 5 who might be open to Orthodoxy under the right circumstances.
The contemplative is not one who discovers secrets no one knows, but one who is swept into ecstasy by what everyone knows.
-A Carthusian
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#7
I don't wanna watch the whole thing, I find Jay very unappealing for the reasons stated above, but I appreciated Erick's composure which I hope didn't deteriorate throughout the debate. Erick would try to make a reasoned argument on the topic at hand and Jay would respond with a series of red-herrings and ad hominems.
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#8
While I had a journey to Orthodoxy similar to Jays and personally find some of what he says compelling I will be the first to admit he can be cringeworthy and totally obnoxious and because of that I rarely if ever watch his debates. Much of the time debates come off as intellectual posturing anyway, with neither side ever changing positions.  

I can't speak for him, but I imagine if you were secure in whatever religious path you were on you wouldn't find the need to engage in the way he does.  He's become sort of a YouTube celeb of sorts in Christian circles and its gotten to his head.
Walk before God in simplicity, and not in subtleties of the mind. Simplicity brings faith; but subtle and intricate speculations bring conceit; and conceit brings withdrawal from God. -Saint Isaac of Syria, Directions on Spiritual Training


"It is impossible in human terms to exaggerate the importance of being in a church or chapel before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. I very seldom repeat what I say. Let me repeat this sentence. It is impossible in human language to exaggerate the importance of being in a chapel or church before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. That sentence is the talisman of the highest sanctity. "Father John Hardon
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