What if the priest/clergy is a tranny?
#1
This is a serious question that I have not seen posed anywhere. It piqued my husband's interest but he said it was a question for this forum because the implications go so wide.

It's hypothetical, but not far-fetched. That trannies are new and recent in popular culture does not mean they have not been around a LONG time. In fact I think Jesus' statement here, speaking of Eunuchs "made so by men" talks about transexuals. 

First Exhibit A:
Matthew 19:12
[Image: cover.jpg]King James Version[Image: arrow-down.svg]


12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs, rwhich were made eunuchs of men: and sthere be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to oreceive it, let him receive it.


 Because the fact that today we know of many mothers/fathers castrating their infants and children in order to transexualize them, does not mean it did not ever happen before. I believe as the Solomon said:

 "There is nothing new under the sun." 

Also it is said (believably) that Satanists routinely transsexualize their children. And it is said to be a practice among the 1% elite, among those with the top excesses of the power and money, who do that. It makes sense that that is the way of the evil one. 

So it's likely possible we have been living with it a long time. In a like way, we are living for a long time with infiltrators in the church. That infiltrators are going to get trannies into the all-male clergy, just to pervert the Church of God, is a no-brainer, IMO. 

Personally I assume it's already done. In fact I believe I have seen it, on numerous occasions (because I have looked for it) but I do not want to be a teacher of transvestigation here - there are plenty of places to learn it. So that is not the gospel I want to declare.  I am saying i see it, and I am an artist, and I see things like this easily.

So I am not trying to convince anyone this exists. But we know that this is a part of the world, and we all know there is a infiltration of Satanic proportions in the Church, so it's safe to assume this could happen, if it has not already. To priests, bishops, archbishops, cardinals and even up.  So I would like to suppose that here in this thread.

We should not expect to see campy trannies; the f-t-m trannies will appear convincingly to us as men. Normally they are not Bruce Jenner campy looking types, but they are convincing, and they have lived their whole life, been raised as transgender, so socially that is how they identify their entire life. It's a horrible thing to do to a child, but he reward seems to be fame, power, position.

The suit jackets over the priestly collar hide a lot - though, close examination exposes the wide hips, too-narrow slopey shoulders, extended with suit shoulders pads (looseness evident at the tops of the arms under the shoulder pads), the shorter forearms, and proportionally shorter arms altogether etc. etc. - there are many indicators.  Of course the robes of the archbishops and up hide a LOT.

So I have thought for some time now that there already exist trannies in the clergy (as well as all places of power and popularity). But let's not argue that, but instead suppose, "What if there ever were?"

So even though I have thought about the existence of FTM trannies in the priesthood, and been convinced of it in various instances, it only occured to me this week, and it nags at me now - could it have an effect on holy orders?? A male priest is ordained, who looks male to everyone (maybe everyone - maybe some insiders do know) - but "only" the priest himself knows he was born female? 

I have been contemplating this for several days and only today I am thinking the answer must be no.  Because of what Jesus said above. He knows all, He saw His Church ahead, and He knew (if) there would be trannies in it. So I think perhaps that just like a priest can be a big sinner and still validly call down Jesus in the Eucharist, then he must have planned for this, knowing the world and knowing our times, and the ordination must be valid, as it was performed publicly on what was accepted as a male.

But I put the Q out there now anyways, because I would like more than just my own thoughts on this. 

And there are trannies who chose that as an adult but also there are those who were altered not of their own will but by the will of their parents, and lived as the opposite sex and see themselves that way, as they took hormones and suppressed their normal development and socially, they are male. 

So the question is, can a priest is born female be validly ordained? And if ordained so, possibly unbeknownst to anyone else, would his consecration be valid??

What if he were a bishop, archbishop and on up - those in charge of ordaining others, would those ordinations be valid, whether they were of natural gender or not?

This you see becomes a big mess and serious problem. That is why i think Jesus must have planned ahead and saw it coming, making living this lie be NOT something that would prevent consecration and valid ordinations.  

 What do you think?
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#2
If a man who is a priest then decides that he is a transgendered person, then he should be dismissed from the clerical state.  Such serious gender identity issues are not compatible with priestly life, similarly to how deep-seated homosexual tendencies are not compatible with priestly life.  What should happen and what would happen, however, aren't necessarily the same.  If a priest declared himself to be a woman, I just wouldn't follow him or have anything to do with him.
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#3
(08-09-2019, 12:18 AM)St.Eliza Wrote: In fact I think Jesus' statement here, speaking of Eunuchs "made so by men" talks about transexuals.

The Church has always understood this to mean those who chose to be celibate (priests and religious).

(08-09-2019, 12:18 AM)St.Eliza Wrote: ... King James Version

Why are you quoting from an heretical version of Scripture on a Catholic site?
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#4
(08-09-2019, 12:18 AM)St.Eliza Wrote: So the question is, can a priest is born female be validly ordained?

No and not valid.

(08-09-2019, 12:18 AM)St.Eliza Wrote: What if he were a bishop, archbishop and on up - those in charge of ordaining others, would those ordinations be valid, whether they were of natural gender or not?

Nope, would be no different to a married man saying they we're single and then marrying in the Catholic Church, he would have lied and the marriage would be null and void.

(08-09-2019, 12:18 AM)St.Eliza Wrote: What do you think?

No problem and not confusing at all, we are all born male or female and no matter what one does to their body or what kind of crazy ideas they have, this fact still stands, and thus only men can be ordained Priests, a woman who undergoes plastic surgery, dresses and looks like a man is still a woman. Just like a married man who lies and gets married in the Catholic Church to another woman is still committing adultery and the marriage is null and void.

God Bless
"Behold the Heart that has so loved men that it has spared nothing, even to exhausting and consuming Itself, in order to testify Its love; in return, I receive from the greater part only ingratitude, by their irreverence and sacrilege, and by the coldness and contempt they have for Me in this Sacrament of Love. But what I feel most keenly is that it is hearts which are consecrated to Me that treat Me thus.” - St. Margaret Mary. Ignored by King of France Culminating in French Revolution.

"Charity concert at Cdl. Schonborn's Cathedral features shirtless actor dancing on Communion rail" - Dec 4, 2018





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#5
(08-09-2019, 02:26 AM)Credidi Propter Wrote: If a man who is a priest then decides that he is a transgendered person, then he should be dismissed from the clerical state.  Such serious gender identity issues are not compatible with priestly life, similarly to how deep-seated homosexual tendencies are not compatible with priestly life.  What should happen and what would happen, however, aren't necessarily the same.  If a priest declared himself to be a woman, I just wouldn't follow him or have anything to do with him.

See my post; I am referring to men who have lived as boys and been seen as men their entire lives. The idea of one deciding he is transgender, as in Bruce Jenner, is not what I saidI am not referring to.
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#6
Eliza, do you realize how rare it would be for someone to have XX chromosomes but display XY body type and tendencies?  And then that same person to feel called to the priesthood . . .  The chances are slim to none.
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#7
The castration in Matthew 19:12 was understood by Early Christians as literal rather than metaphorical. The practice of self-castration among Early Christian clergy achieved such proportions that, in 325, the First Canon of the Council of Nicaea explicitly banned the practice:

Canon I: 
"If any one in sickness has been subjected by physicians to a surgical operation, or if he has been castrated by barbarians, let him remain among the clergy; but, if any one in sound health has castrated himself, it behooves that such an one, if [already] enrolled among the clergy, should cease [from his ministry], and that from henceforth no such person should be promoted. But, as it is evident that this is said of those who wilfully do the thing and presume to castrate themselves, so if any have been made eunuchs by barbarians, or by their masters, and should otherwise be found worthy, such men the Canon admits to the clergy."

Many historians argue that Origen of Alexandria practiced self-castration, although some others contest that claim.

The castrati, on the other hand, refers to a practice by the Vatican that, in the 16th century, after the exclusion of girls from the choirs, decided to castrate little boys to replace falsetto soprano voices. Historians estimate that every year, during the 17th and the 18th centuries, around 5000 Italian little boys aged between 7 and 9 were castrated by the Church to sing in the choirs.

Pope St. Pius X prohibited the practice in 1903, on St. Cecilia's Day.
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#8
(08-09-2019, 02:47 AM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(08-09-2019, 12:18 AM)St.Eliza Wrote: In fact I think Jesus' statement here, speaking of Eunuchs "made so by men" talks about transexuals.

The Church has always understood this to mean those who chose to be celibate (priests and religious).

I thought Eunuchs "for the sake of the kingdom..." referred to those who chose to be celibate for religious service.  Those made so by man referred to those who were castrated.
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#9
(08-09-2019, 03:22 PM)St.Eliza Wrote:
(08-09-2019, 02:26 AM)Credidi Propter Wrote: If a man who is a priest then decides that he is a transgendered person, then he should be dismissed from the clerical state.  Such serious gender identity issues are not compatible with priestly life, similarly to how deep-seated homosexual tendencies are not compatible with priestly life.  What should happen and what would happen, however, aren't necessarily the same.  If a priest declared himself to be a woman, I just wouldn't follow him or have anything to do with him.

See my post; I am referring to men who have lived as boys and been seen as men their entire lives. The idea of one deciding he is transgender, as in Bruce Jenner, is not what I saidI am not referring to.

When a man applies to seminary, he has to get a physical exam.  Part of it includes examining the genitals.  I think he has to have one before the initial application to seminary as well as before moving on to major seminary.  A doctor is going to know if what a[n apparent] man's got is really his or not.  I suppose the doctor could say everything is OK, when it really isn't.  It should still come up in the psychological evaluations and other questioning.  If not and a transsexual somehow got through, then it wouldn't be valid.

This would definitely be a good reason for dioceses and religious communities to choose the doctor who does the physical rather than have the applicant go to their own doctor.
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#10
(08-09-2019, 06:32 PM)Credidi Propter Wrote: When a man applies to seminary, he has to get a physical exam.  Part of it includes examining the genitals.  I think he has to have one before the initial application to seminary as well as before moving on to major seminary.  A doctor is going to know if what a[n apparent] man's got is really his or not.  I suppose the doctor could say everything is OK, when it really isn't.  It should still come up in the psychological evaluations and other questioning.  If not and a transsexual somehow got through, then it wouldn't be valid.

This would definitely be a good reason for dioceses and religious communities to choose the doctor who does the physical rather than have the applicant go to their own doctor.

This is good to know, and i was glad to hear at - at first. Then I realized, with seminaries systematically ruling out good men, and systematically taking on and (apparently) training homosexual predators - and with a plan of infiltration in place, a go-around for this exam would be arranged... Undecided
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