Questions about TL Baptism
#1
Hi all, so, my wife is pregnant!

And naturally we prefer the Ancient Form of Baptism, but the priest we are asking to administer the sacrament (while a lover of the Latin language and - more importantly - a good man) has never done it before, so we have some questions.

My wife is a convert, and so all of her relatives are Protestant. I think they would be really impressed by the exorcisms (knowing her family as I do) but they might be thrown by the Latin. Is it possible to have the Latin prayers of the Ancient Rite of Baptism, repeated in English, after they are said in Latin? Is this permissible?

Also, is it permissible to sing a hymn before and after the rite? We were thinking Adam Lay Ybounden just before the Rite, and the chant Vidi Aquam just after. 

One final question: the priest wears a white surplice and violet (then white) stole. Is a cope worn at any point? I see pictures online of Ancient Form baptisms with a cope. Looks like purple at beginning, and then one appropriate for the season on entering the baptistry? What's up with that?

Thanks!
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#2
(08-21-2019, 05:02 PM)meandmyshadow Wrote: Hi all, so, my wife is pregnant!

And naturally we prefer the Ancient Form of Baptism, but the priest we are asking to administer the sacrament (while a lover of the Latin language and - more importantly - a good man) has never done it before, so we have some questions.

My wife is a convert, and so all of her relatives are Protestant. I think they would be really impressed by the exorcisms (knowing her family as I do) but they might be thrown by the Latin. Is it possible to have the Latin prayers of the Ancient Rite of Baptism, repeated in English, after they are said in Latin? Is this permissible?

Also, is it permissible to sing a hymn before and after the rite? We were thinking Adam Lay Ybounden just before the Rite, and the chant Vidi Aquam just after. 

One final question: the priest wears a white surplice and violet (then white) stole. Is a cope worn at any point? I see pictures online of Ancient Form baptisms with a cope. Looks like purple at beginning, and then one appropriate for the season on entering the baptistry? What's up with that?

Thanks!

Vidi Aquam is a chant proper to the Easter season, so it wouldn’t be proper outside. Also, there usually isn’t any music at baptisms done outside of Mass. I suppose if you want to sing a hymn, you could, but keep in mind the priest may not want to lengthen the ceremony any more than necessary. If I were a priest, I would rather spend extra time going out to eat after the baptism than adding music to a liturgical ceremony that is alread an addition to their schedule.

Maybe you could get the priest a copy of the traditional rite, and instructions, so he doesn’t have to find them himself. This could be a good way to introduce him further to traditional liturgy. It’s beautiful and and has such rich symbolism, but is still a lot simpler than Mass.
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#3
(08-21-2019, 05:02 PM)meandmyshadow Wrote: Hi all, so, my wife is pregnant!

And naturally we prefer the Ancient Form of Baptism, but the priest we are asking to administer the sacrament (while a lover of the Latin language and - more importantly - a good man) has never done it before, so we have some questions.

My wife is a convert, and so all of her relatives are Protestant. I think they would be really impressed by the exorcisms (knowing her family as I do) but they might be thrown by the Latin. Is it possible to have the Latin prayers of the Ancient Rite of Baptism, repeated in English, after they are said in Latin? Is this permissible?

Also, is it permissible to sing a hymn before and after the rite? We were thinking Adam Lay Ybounden just before the Rite, and the chant Vidi Aquam just after. 

One final question: the priest wears a white surplice and violet (then white) stole. Is a cope worn at any point? I see pictures online of Ancient Form baptisms with a cope. Looks like purple at beginning, and then one appropriate for the season on entering the baptistry? What's up with that?

Thanks!

The Form and Exorcisms in the traditional rite must occur in Latin. The rest may be done in the vernacular if an approved translations exists.


The priest could always give instructions throughout in English as well as explaining the Latin prayers as well. I find this helpful, but often very clunky when I've seen this done. The rite loses a great deal of solemnity when it seems unplanned and like the priest is interrupting every so often with comments.

The rite is really not meant to have hymns attached to it. It begins outside of the Church (just like the child), so there's not really an opportunity for this. It ends in the baptistry, so there's also not really a place for a hymn either. In general, I think it right to let the rite speak for itself rather than feel the need to doll it up, nice as those hymns are.

The cope is optional for priests. When a bishop baptizes solemnly, he is meant to use the cope. The priest performs the preparatory rites to the Baptism in violet (purple is not a liturgical color), then right before the Baptism itself switches to white. If he were wearing a cope he does the same thing. Violet is the color of penance, so it is used for penitential acts, the Sacrament of Penance and Extreme Unction and exorcisms as well as Vigils, Advent and Lent. White is the color for most blessings, for the other Sacraments, for Our Lord, of the Paschal Season, etc. 

So the priest starts with penitential acts in violet, then when it is time for the anointing and Baptism he switches to white (or sometimes to cloth of gold—gold-colored or yellow fabrics are improper for the liturgy).
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#4
Fascinating! So, the rite begins outside the church? I thought it began in the Narthex?
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#5
(08-21-2019, 08:17 PM)meandmyshadow Wrote: Fascinating! So, the rite begins outside the church? I thought it began in the Narthex?

In the ideal setup it is meant to begin outside of the consecrated church proper. That usually means in a vestibule or on the steps of the church outside. Then the child is led into the Baptistry which can be accessed without entry to the church, and then after Baptism out into the church itself.

The symbolism is that the child is before Baptism, excluded from the church, then after suitable preparation led to the font of Baptism, then sanctified and a member of the Church, can enter into the church itself.

The actual setup depends on the church building and how it is setup.
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#6
Oh my gosh.
All the churches in my area have what are obviously baptisteries that aren't baptisteries anymore. Almost always, they have an exterior entrance, and I always wondered why they were converted. I guess because in the new rite of baptism this is no longer a thing.
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#7
Congratulations on the new baby!
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Perhaps, so the protestants can follow along, you could do your own Latin/English flyer for them to follow along, you know, Latin on one side of the page and the English on the other.  You could add the explanation of the steps of the Baptism so they can understand.  Of course you would need to clear this with Father to make sure you are all on the same page.
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#8
(08-21-2019, 10:56 PM)MaryTN Wrote: Congratulations on the new baby!
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Perhaps, so the protestants can follow along, you could do your own Latin/English flyer for them to follow along, you know, Latin on one side of the page and the English on the other.  You could add the explanation of the steps of the Baptism so they can understand.  Of course you would need to clear this with Father to make sure you are all on the same page.

Angelus Press produces a great booklet with lots of explanations. Perhaps you could get a few to give as souvenirs.
https://angeluspress.org/products/baptism
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