I'm in a dilemma
#21
The next time your wife brings up the "wait until they are old enough to decide" cliché, tell her you don't want them being indoctrinated with mathematics anymore.  They should be allowed to decide later if they'd like to pursue such life altering knowledge. :rolleyes:

My wife, who isn't Catholic either, once said I was brainwashing our children, and I took offense.  A fellow parishioner said, "Yes, we are brainwashing them," implying, I suppose, that we're washing out the cultural clutter they receive from the media and school, etc., whilst instilling the right stuff into them.
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#22
(08-22-2019, 10:12 PM)Augustinian Wrote: As for my conversion story, I don't typically try to post from my blog, but you'll find the most thorough version of it there: https://slavetothesacredhe.art.blog/2019...o-my-blog/

Thanks, what a roller coaster, puts the issue your facing with your wife now into a little more perspective too. On a side note, what was the argument J.R.R. Tolkien used to convert C.S. Lewis?

God Bless You
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#23
(08-23-2019, 03:07 AM)josh987654321 Wrote:
(08-22-2019, 10:12 PM)Augustinian Wrote: As for my conversion story, I don't typically try to post from my blog, but you'll find the most thorough version of it there: https://slavetothesacredhe.art.blog/2019...o-my-blog/

Thanks, what a roller coaster, puts the issue your facing with your wife now into a little more perspective too. On a side note, what was the argument J.R.R. Tolkien used to convert C.S. Lewis?

God Bless You

Both Tolkien and Lewis really loved ancient mythology. Lewis's perspective was that Christianity was just another myth among many. Tolkien then proposed that Christianity was the only true myth which was the fulfillment of the commonalities of all other myths, which was about where I was at the time of my conversion.

Here's a nice summary of it: http://www.cslewis.com/lewis-on-tolkien-3/
"The Heart of Jesus is closer to you when you suffer, than when you are full of joy." - St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

Put not your trust in princes: In the children of men, in whom there is no salvation. - Ps. 145:2-3

"For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables." - 2 Timothy 4:3-4
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#24
I think that others have given the best advice that you can get in terms of the spiritual aspect of things. It would be prudent to listen.

But since we are on Tolkein and Lewis, what are your wife's reading habits? I hate to over-intellectualize religion, but you seem like a pretty intelligent guy, so I imagine your wife will be too. Maybe she would open up through reading.

Don't give her apologetic works! But maybe you could "guide" her. 

I hear people laud Dostoevsky. C.S. Lewis's Narnia is replete with Christian motifs. Same with Tolkien. I've never read anything by him, but from his videos maybe Jordan Peterson. He has some serious problems with him, but he might get her going in the right direction. 

It's just an idea. 

If you can expose her to true beauty, that might help also. Truth, beauty and goodness are all interwoven. Maybe get outdoors more, or take the family on trips to magnificent churches. Try some beautiful poetry if your wife is into that thing.
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#25
(08-22-2019, 10:12 PM)Augustinian Wrote: As for my conversion story, I don't typically try to post from my blog, but you'll find the most thorough version of it there: https://slavetothesacredhe.art.blog/2019...o-my-blog/

Pretty cool story man, at some points we probably had a lot in common, especially the music! Although I still listen to extreme metal, I'm much more selective with the artists. 

I wish I could help you out with your dilemma, but having never experienced married life I feel very unqualified. I'll be praying for you.
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#26
(08-23-2019, 10:02 AM)Alphonse il Segundo Wrote: I think that others have given the best advice that you can get in terms of the spiritual aspect of things. It would be prudent to listen.

But since we are on Tolkein and Lewis, what are your wife's reading habits? I hate to over-intellectualize religion, but you seem like a pretty intelligent guy, so I imagine your wife will be too. Maybe she would open up through reading.

Don't give her apologetic works! But maybe you could "guide" her. 

I hear people laud Dostoevsky. C.S. Lewis's Narnia is replete with Christian motifs. Same with Tolkien. I've never read anything by him, but from his videos maybe Jordan Peterson. He has some serious problems with him, but he might get her going in the right direction. 

It's just an idea. 

If you can expose her to true beauty, that might help also. Truth, beauty and goodness are all interwoven. Maybe get outdoors more, or take the family on trips to magnificent churches. Try some beautiful poetry if your wife is into that thing.

I appreciate all advice given in this thread, God bless you all.

But unfortunately, no. The most reading she does is Facebook and occasionally dog training books or Harry Potter. I love her, but she is not an intelligent person. Probably below average given her naivete about many things. It makes it difficult when I attempt to explain things to her because she thinks I'm being condescending.
"The Heart of Jesus is closer to you when you suffer, than when you are full of joy." - St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

Put not your trust in princes: In the children of men, in whom there is no salvation. - Ps. 145:2-3

"For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables." - 2 Timothy 4:3-4
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#27
Augustinian, I'm so sorry to hear about your troubles. Remember that all the saints suffered adversity for the Faith and we're no different. We have to suffer, too. But God has you in this. Nothing will happen that he won't permit. When you get down or overwhelmed remember the beauty of your conversion (haven't read that yet, but will) and the mystery of our Catholic Faith which is Christ's Love for us. Train your mind to think about that when it wants to turn to worry over the eternal souls of your family members. 

Your wife is still getting used to the "new you". In all fairness to her, she hasn't changed: you have! I'm sure it seems extremely unfair from her perspective. We know of course it's the best thing that could've happened to her and to your children because it gives them a better opportunity for conversion. 

You say she's not an intellectual, but there must be some qualities that attracted you to her. You said she likes dogs....Is she kind hearted? Maternal? Beautiful? Make sure she knows what you love about her. Get involved in her interests. Get her a new dog, or volunteer at a shelter with her or let her know you'll sponsor a dog that's up for adoption if money is tight. Something like that. You know her better than I. Woo her.  

Pray the rosary, go to Mass, wear the scapular. The Blessed Virgin Mary won't abandon you. She'll work it out in her own time. Don't panic. 

However I will say this, and it's my own opinion and I could be wrong. Realize your children will grow and will one day have to choose the Faith--or reject it. If they see their dad became Catholic and that split up their home, what do you think that will do to the odds of them wanting receive the Faith as adults? Divorce is the worst possible scenario. If it does happen, make darn sure it's not you asking for it.

Perhaps for a while you may have to share the Catholic Faith with your children in terms of objectivity, as in "this is what Catholics believe". Do you think you could get your wife on board with at least that much? If they're old enough your children know you're a solid Catholic. They already know you want the whole family to convert. I'm just afraid that if you push things too far it's all gonna go sideways and get messy fast. You know what I'm saying? Be Catholic, bring it into the home, but don't push the envelope for them to do the same too quickly. Prayers! Ave x's 3. God bless
Oh my Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything.--Fr Dolindo Ruotolo

Persevere..Eucharist, Holy Rosary, Brown Scapular, Confession. You will win.
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#28
Augustinian, 

My parents argued about religion most of my childhood.  Around the time I was 8 or so, my mother had a confrontation with a priest at our local parish.  She was so angry, she became hostile to the faith.  Going to Mass on Sunday became an occasion of war between my parents.  My dad would sneak off to attend mid-week because insisting on going on Sunday would very likely result in divorce.  It was bad.  I went to CCD, but got little out of it.  My sister never got past First Communion.  Oh, Dad would try to bring up matters of faith, but Mom was so anti-Catholic it was horrible.  Dad quietly persevered.  And I really do mean quietly.  The result?  Both my sister and I are practicing Catholics when nobody else on my mom's side of the family is remotely religious.  

Why do I share this?  A father has great influence over his children.  If you can't directly address theology, use books (Lewis & Tolkien - as others have mentioned - are great) to begin to introduce concepts.  Discuss things (great literature) with your children.  Tease out those Catholic themes.  Listen to your kids.  Encourage them to share their ideas with you.  Tell them stories that include great saints.  Be there; be real.  They will listen and value your opinions.  Kids are smart; they can read us pretty well.  They will remember what you tell them - even years and years later - and treasure those memories.  It will build an attachment to the faith.  Remember that you are planting seeds and give them time to take root.

God bless you!
Fontevrault
Adoption, Home School, and Catholic Family Life:  StolenPears.com
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#29
Fontevrault makes such a good point.  The children are far more likely to follow their father's example, a lot of research bears this out.  If the father is a practicing "X" religion, the children are more likely to be "X", regardless of the mother's influence.  Which is surprising considering how much more time the children spend with the mother. 

I am somewhat in your situation, as a convert after marriage, but my husband is not antagonistic toward my teaching the children the Faith.  He's rather apathetic, doesn't attend Mass with us and doesn't really get involved in any kind of religious education.  He's not super interested in purity and very strong Christian morals.  What terrifies me is what I described in my first paragraph, how much influence the father has!  I could try and try and it might be for naught.  I shouldn't think that way, I know.  

God can do everything, he said our faith could move mountains, Jesus said anything we asked of the Father through him, he would give us.  It is a holy and righteous thing to pray for your children's souls (and your wife's).  There's no reason why many years of faithful prayer and sacrifice won't yield these fruits.  God wants it more than we even want it.  

In one of my most recent confessions, the priest said "you are the only inroads of sacramental grace to your family".  He said the most important thing I could do was pray for my husband's conversion, since it was most important (because from there, we could raise our children as Catholics together).  He said something like "it's WW3 around you" (referring to the spiritual battles being waged over that one person in a family who is trying to get everyone else to heaven).  He said it was really important to frequent the sacraments, stay in a state of grace, pray and sacrifice, stay close to Our Lady.  

I feel you so much.  This is a long, difficult road.  It's a constant battle.  I want to be able to say as St. Paul said, "I ran the race.  I fought the fight."  I want to know I endured and fought as hard as I could for my husband and children.  Every day I feel like a failure but we all have to keep trying!  God help you and your family  :pray2:
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#30
(08-31-2019, 02:05 AM)mpk1987 Wrote: Fontevrault makes such a good point.  The children are far more likely to follow their father's example, a lot of research bears this out.  If the father is a practicing "X" religion, the children are more likely to be "X", regardless of the mother's influence.  Which is surprising considering how much more time the children spend with the mother. 

I am somewhat in your situation, as a convert after marriage, but my husband is not antagonistic toward my teaching the children the Faith.  He's rather apathetic, doesn't attend Mass with us and doesn't really get involved in any kind of religious education.  He's not super interested in purity and very strong Christian morals.  What terrifies me is what I described in my first paragraph, how much influence the father has!  I could try and try and it might be for naught.  I shouldn't think that way, I know.  

God can do everything, he said our faith could move mountains, Jesus said anything we asked of the Father through him, he would give us.  It is a holy and righteous thing to pray for your children's souls (and your wife's).  There's no reason why many years of faithful prayer and sacrifice won't yield these fruits.  God wants it more than we even want it.  

In one of my most recent confessions, the priest said "you are the only inroads of sacramental grace to your family".  He said the most important thing I could do was pray for my husband's conversion, since it was most important (because from there, we could raise our children as Catholics together).  He said something like "it's WW3 around you" (referring to the spiritual battles being waged over that one person in a family who is trying to get everyone else to heaven).  He said it was really important to frequent the sacraments, stay in a state of grace, pray and sacrifice, stay close to Our Lady.  

I feel you so much.  This is a long, difficult road.  It's a constant battle.  I want to be able to say as St. Paul said, "I ran the race.  I fought the fight."  I want to know I endured and fought as hard as I could for my husband and children.  Every day I feel like a failure but we all have to keep trying!  God help you and your family  :pray2:

Yeah, it's really tough. But even after the most recent argument detailed in this thread, I'm still sticking to my guns and practicing my faith.

WW3 is a good comparison. I have days where I just feel so spiritually exhausted looking at all of the sin, temptation and evil in my own family, my workplace, the world and in myself. I've spent a good majority of the past year and a half getting close to Our Lady and St Michael (since they were key to my conversion) as well as St Joseph and the angels. Spiritual warfare really is the only thing we have right now, and it is intense. My confessors have all said the same thing, pray pray pray for them. It's rougher some days, but fertile ground to practice patience, humility and charity. 

I'll pray for you:pray:
"The Heart of Jesus is closer to you when you suffer, than when you are full of joy." - St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

Put not your trust in princes: In the children of men, in whom there is no salvation. - Ps. 145:2-3

"For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables." - 2 Timothy 4:3-4
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