Biblical evidence for the Assumption, Coronation, and Immaculate Conception of Mary?
#41
(09-05-2019, 11:45 AM)Porkncheese Wrote:
(09-05-2019, 10:12 AM)Alphonse il Segundo Wrote:
(09-05-2019, 09:49 AM)Porkncheese Wrote: Yes I know. There seems to be a group of Catholics who have become a Marian cult. Making Hail Mary mandatory for everyone despite the Catholic church not demanding as such.

A serious question, do you read the responses people make to?

Has not MM's post explained that the Church can, and in fact does, mandate devotion to the Virgin Mary? 

If you want people to take you seriously it helps to take others seriously.

My priest said that Marian devotion isn't required by the church. His authority is greater than anyone else here.

Not if his theology is so bad that he's not teaching you the Catholic Faith. He has no authority to teach against what the Church herself along with her doctors, theologians and the Saints have taught.

Saints and Pope have said such devotion is necessary. If you priests says it is not, he is quite clearly wrong because his opinion on this is contrary to what the Church teaches.
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#42
Update: As often happens, my doubts have largely subsided for now. Reading the convincing arguments for Marian devotion and accepting the dogmas surrounding her here in this thread was helpful, as was continuing to pray the rosary in earnest. 

I do agree that porkncheese, while I defend his claim that Catholics are not required to pray to Mary, did go beyond the pale in outright rejecting certain established truths about Mary. But I didn't care for the dogpile on him.

I think Marian devotion is an important part of being Catholic, and, as the lives of many saints can attest, can help one live a holy life. I accept that not everything has to make perfect sense to me in order for it to be true or valuable. However, there is still one lingering contention that sticks in my mind. 

If, as commenters here have said, connecting to Jesus through Mary is the most efficacious and direct route to salvation, why didn't Christ say as much at least once in the Gospels? Jesus talks a lot about the need to believe in Him and to live a selfless life doing good works in His name, but why, if Marian devotion is so essential to our salvation, didn't He say so? He could have said something along the lines of, "If anyone wishes to believe in me, they must do so through my holy Mother." Yet, instead, these essential doctrines were left to later revelations. Why?
Omnia et in omnibus Christus
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#43
(09-05-2019, 09:49 AM)Porkncheese Wrote: Yes I know. There seems to be a group of Catholics who have become a Marian cult.
 

lol

(09-05-2019, 09:49 AM)Porkncheese Wrote: Making Hail Mary mandatory for everyone despite the Catholic church not demanding as such.

Mate, what is with this 'Hail Mary' business? The 'Hail Mary' is found with scripture alone. What is the real issue you have with our Blessed Mother? what is it your really struggling with? Did you watch the videos I shared?

Hail Mary, Full of Grace, the Lord is with thee
Luke 1:28 Wrote:28 And he came to her and said, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!”

Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus
Luke 1:41 Wrote:and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit 42 and she exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!

Holy Mary, Mother of God, Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death amen.
Luke 1:43 Wrote:43 And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

God Bless
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#44
(09-13-2019, 12:45 AM)whitewashed_tomb Wrote: I do agree that porkncheese, while I defend his claim that Catholics are not required to pray to Mary, did go beyond the pale in outright rejecting certain established truths about Mary. But I didn't care for the dogpile on him.

But as MagisterMusicae so perfectly put it -

(09-05-2019, 06:00 AM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: It is one thing to ask "How do you reconcile the Perpetual Virginity with what seems to be Jesus' brothers in Scripture?" That's a fine question.

It is something entirely other to say, as one person has above, that clearly Mary had sex with Joseph after Jesus was born because he has brothers. That's a statement and assertion, not a question. Someone who makes such a statement isn't looking for answers, or at least does not appear to be.

And as Father in the Sensus Fidelium video puts it, when he quotes one of the saints who exclaimed Mary was a Virgin Before, During and After the birth of Christ, that the Devil knows well, that if you can tarnish the Mother, you can tarnish the Son, He... the King of Kings! is flesh of Her flesh! His Heart was formed from Her heart!.... Think about that! let that sink in for a bit..... Our Mother the Blessed Virgin Mary is no ordinary woman by any means.

And of course, if Mary was not without sin, then the Devil can claim she was his, before she was God's and that the Heart of God was formed from a Heart that even for a moment belonged to the Devil, if that's not deeply offensive to God I don't know what is.

John 8:39-42 Wrote:They answered him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do what Abraham did, 40 but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth which I heard from God; this is not what Abraham did. 41 You do what your father did.” They said to him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.”42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.

(09-13-2019, 12:45 AM)whitewashed_tomb Wrote: If, as commenters here have said, connecting to Jesus through Mary is the most efficacious and direct route to salvation, why didn't Christ say as much at least once in the Gospels?

John 19:26 Wrote:26 When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” 27 Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!”

Dr Scott Hahn also notes that if Jesus really did have brothers, and not just cousins which is what they were (as they had no word for cousins), then this would have been illegal under Jewish law.

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#45
(09-13-2019, 12:45 AM)whitewashed_tomb Wrote: If, as commenters here have said, connecting to Jesus through Mary is the most efficacious and direct route to salvation, why didn't Christ say as much at least once in the Gospels? Jesus talks a lot about the need to believe in Him and to live a selfless life doing good works in His name, but why, if Marian devotion is so essential to our salvation, didn't He say so? He could have said something along the lines of, "If anyone wishes to believe in me, they must do so through my holy Mother." Yet, instead, these essential doctrines were left to later revelations. Why?

Have you read True Devotion to Mary by St Louis Marie de Montfort? He explains it far better than I could. He makes the point that going directly to the Son is indeed possible, but it is easier and more efficacios to go through Mary. Think of the Miracle at Cana.
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#46
The body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ whom we receive in Holy Communion was formed completely from the Blessed Virgin Mary's, and yet poor, misguided or ignorant souls want to say Mary was just an ordinary woman?.... I don't think so.

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